Posted on Thursday, 1/15/2009 - 9:22 p.m. PST — by grouch
I'm a White guy, who just enjoyed his first senior discount at a movie theater. As such, I recognize that it is much more likely that I will suffer abuse at the hands of a gang member than a policeman. I believe in law enforcement. I even perform volunteer civic service supporting and being supported by law-enforcement agencies, because I believe in enforcement of the law. But, I get very nervous when "law enforcement" is no longer synonymous with enforcement of the law. Being an "Adam Henry" is not illegal. Dealing with "Adam Henrys" is a policeman's job – not an excuse for use of lethal force. Public intoxication and fighting are misdemeanors. Manslaughter and second degree murder are felonies, and extra-judicial execution is a capital offence, under many circumstances also viewed as a war crime. What we need is enforcement of the law. Another point that I have not seen made is that, given the trajectory of the bullet ricocheting off the concrete, Officer Mehserle also placed in jeopardy the officer whose knee was on Oscar Grant's neck at the time of the shooting.
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Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 88
Ricochet is not an issue here; the police tend to use hollow points that are designed to dissipate their force on impact instead of ricocheting or fragmenting.
Joined: Jan 2009
Current Posts: 24
We can’t undo the tragedy that took place over two weeks ago but moving forward we should all bear in my mind that God made a covenant with Noah centuries ago, we can not harm or kill another man (person) without answering to God. A penalty must be paid. Justice will be served.
Unfortunately, at the very beginning of the 2009 a senseless tragedy took place in our community. Two young men in their 20’s with promising lives ahead of them have been taken away from us. Oscar’s body has been laid to rest and Johannes is being held in an Alameda County jail facing very serious charges and a series of court hearings.
Their families have been literally turned upside down and they are in deep grief and pain. Let’s keep them in our prayers and thoughts and be available to support them.
Let our courts and law enforcement officials do their job with the professionalism, fairness and impartially they committed themselves to.
Our communities all over the Bay Area and beyond are appalled and saddened. Let us find constructive and creative ways to channel our emotions. We don’t need to stoop to name calling, racial hatred, denial, or vandalism.
This matter with its overwhelming evidence is now in the hands of our law enforcers. Justice will be served.
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 14
very well said. AGREE
Joined: Jul 2009
Current Posts: 1
The San Francisco Bay Area, also known as the Bay Area, is a metropolitan region that surrounds the San Francisco Bay in Northern California. It includes the cities of San Francisco, San José, and Oakland, and their many suburbs.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Current Posts: 752
Beles said, "If this had happened in any other context aside from an officer-related shooting, the person would have been arrested and in jail that night." Actually, had this happened in the typical Oakland context the shooter would have run away immediately after he shot his victim and all of the witnesses would have said, "I didn't see nothing."
Joined: May 2009
Current Posts: 14
You got it Jif - everyone screams about how the cops do nothing yet the citizens refuse to help. they just want ot complain. If you are not going to help the situation you have no right to complain about it. Report what you know to the cops - document what you said to them and when you said it. When nothing has been done you have the right to [bleep] and the OPD will have to answer for that. Force them to act - force them to corret the problem BY WORKING WITH THEM TO CORRECT IT!
Joined: Aug 2008
Current Posts: 3
Anne Beles is a terrible lawyer and looses all the time. How is she qualified to say anything about this case. The dude is going down for this and he should. Manslaughter would be fair considering everything.
Joined: Jan 2009
Current Posts: 4
He defended Hans Reiser. The DA got a conviction even though there was no body; turns out Reiser did it; he then led them to the body to have his sentenced reduced.
Joined: Jan 2009
Current Posts: 3
You are all entitled to your opinions, that is why this forum is here. But I am amazed about all of the uneducated and unsupported postings here. The people who who say this incident is murder obviously don't know one thing about the law or justice system, they might think they do but thier posts prove they don't. The law and court system does not work on "what you think" a charge should be. It works on facts. And the fact is this incident was a mistake. It will be proven in court and a murder charge will be aquitted. I am no way defending this officer, I am just pointing out the facts. I believe he should be charged with manslaughter, becuase he would be convicted of that. He will get nothing with this murder charge. The only thing he will lose is in a civil trial. Also, being that he is no longer employeed by BART does not mean anything at all. At the time of the incident he was a BART police officer. Police officers have a different standard than citizens when it comes to crimes, whether you like it or not, thats the way it is. There is no cover up or anything else you people would like it to be. They have training on how to use violent force to subdue a person and how to kill them, which they will use in thier course of duty. So when they use it, in thier course of duty, it is not a criminal act, like it would be with any citizen. This incident was an accident, tragic at that, but nothing more than that. And it happened in the course of his duties dealing with an uncooperative subject. Yes Grant was face down on the ground, but why was he the only one??? And why were the officers still struggling with him while the other goons were just sitting up against the wall?? Why, becuase Grant was struggling and not obeying commands. The other goons were obeying and nothing happened to them. I don't have anything against Grant, that's just the facts. I'm sure if he did what he was told, this would have never happened. The officer would not have been flustered under pressure and make this tragic mistake. I know the video outrages a lot of people, and it's because they don't understand it. To them they only see a police officer "murder" an unarmed man and think it was intentional. That thinking is ridiculous and unsupported. We don't know ALL of the facts that go along with that video. The video is just one part of this entire incident, not the WHOLE thing. I laugh when people say "the video shows for itself its cold blooded murder." If the video showed another citizen stand over Grant and shoot him, then yes it is more likely murder. But you people just don't understand how the system works. I believe you don't WANT to understand, you just think the police can get away with anything. You don't think it's fair. Well your right its not fair and it shouldn't be. The police have the right to use force and/or kill and you don't have same exact right. That's the way it is. Again I believe the officer should be charged for his negligence which caused the untimely death of Grant, but murder is not the right charge. A lot of people let thier emotions and hatred of the police affect thier better judgement on this incident. You ALL should be demanding a manslughter charge because let me tell you something that might surprise you. Friends and family of this officer are happy about the murder charge against him because they know he will walk. They did not want the manslaughter charge, he would have been put away for that. I am speaking from knowledge and education, not emotion.
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 1382
Where did you get it into your head that police work was allowed to be unfair? Where did you get it into your head that something called "excessive force" doesn't exist? Why should a police officer kill a person just for resisting an arrest who happened to be fighting on a BART train? That doesn't make sense. That's not reasonable. I've seen plenty of people resisiting arrest. A strike of a baton, macing suffices. There is no need for tasering nor shooting. A billy club at most.
The punishment doesn't fit the "crime". As a society it is WE THE PEOPLE who determine how our police departments operate and it is up to WE THE PEOPLE to change things. Now police officers perhaps are individuals who like this power and enjoy abusing it. That is why we need to implement strick excessive force guidelines and change the status quo to make it more European like Britain and other countries. Because too many police officers now are taking their training and using it as a justification to kill.
But I don't blame the police in all cases because there needs to be new protocols developed for mentally ill persons which the police are often forced to deal with when they become violent.
And please tell me where it is written that the system "is not supposed to be fair". You sound more like a brownshirt than a member of the Republic of the United States. In fact, you don't EVEN sound like a Republican and actually you sound pretty emotional yourself insisting that people don't want to understand. Sounds to me like maybe you yourself don't want to understand the other side of the coin.
Joined: Jan 2009
Current Posts: 1
You are emotional about this. Why you calling teenager goons, you do not even know why they were taken from train. The reason Grant was not handcuffed, he was complying with the police. Everyone was sitting on the floor handcuffed, two males started arguing with police, Grant got up trying calm everyone down. Police realized he was not handcuffed forced to ground and everyone knows the rest. These teenagers were not goons or thugs, but over zealous partyers celebrating News Years Day. THERE WAS NO PHYSCIAL FIGHT ON TRAIN.
Born and raised in Oakland, I know what happened on train
Joined: Jan 2009
Current Posts: 24
Trashman is the one speaking very logically here. He makes a very good point. I of course only disagree in that I believe Officer Mehserle should never have been charged...he lost his job and there is still a civil trial. I know, people out there are whining right now that Grant lost much more. You know what, if Grant had just cooperated this would never have happened. I'm not saying that simple resistance is a reason to be shot, but it definetly puts you at more of a risk. He did not have all the details that Officer Mehserle had...therefore he could not have known what was going through the BART Police Officer's mind. He was confronted by several UNIFORMED POLICE OFFICERS. His obligation was to simply shut up, cooperate and more than likely he would have walked away...free to continue acting like an jackass.
Joined: May 2009
Current Posts: 424
Contrary to your ridiculous denial, there WERE PHYSICAL FIGHTS on the BART. FYI innocent passengers endangered by them are the ones who phoned ahead for police help to be waiting at the BART. And NO Grant was NOT complying with police. He first defied instructions and returned into the BART train after having been out on the platforum. Police had to go into the traincar to get him to come back out. And NO he was NOT complying with police when shot. A video that aired on KRON (but never aired on biased KTVU) showed the shooting from a totally different angle than 99% of those circulating. It was filmed from the far right. And it CORROBORATES police claims that (1) Grant was resisting giving his arms to the cop on his back trying to cuff him. Instead Grant was wriggling around with his arms tucked between his stomach and the ground. If only he hadn't been a bigshot who was showing off for the loud crowd who were egging him on, if he would have let himself get handcuffed, then Mesherle wouldn't have made the tragically stupid mistake that he did.
FYI I was born and raised in Oakland too. Lived my whole life here. And I've seen clowns like you come and go, who eagerly try to re-write history to serve your hypocritical agenda. You fool few folks other than yourself.
Joined: Jan 2009
Current Posts: 339
Ha ha ha...you tried to justify the shooting, then referred to it as a "tragically stupid mistake". What a moron. If I were this cop's lawyer, I'd move to have IBA delete all of the posts on this forum in defense of this cop. You guys are not helping him. Just firmly planting your feet in your mouth, time and time again.
Joined: May 2009
Current Posts: 424
As if I'm supposed to defend myself from the words you put in my mouth that I never said. And as if anything posted here has any weight in the courtroom anyway. Wow, what a waste of bandwidth your drivel is.
Joined: Sep 2007
Current Posts: 411
what a dumb a(zz)..you talk just like you were right there and no there wasn't physical FIGHT(S). There was shove or 2 and when it was over, the other guy arguing w/ Grant would'nt shut the f(uk) up. As for you being born "and" raised in Oakland, I doubt it very seriously. Your postings aren't even worth reading, matter of fact their full of s(hyt).
Joined: May 2009
Current Posts: 424
I believe witnesses & passengers on that train who documented reports of the fights, long before I'd believe a guttermouth troll with delusions of grandeur like you bluepeas. You have a screw loose if you think all those cops showed up because a dozen passengers phoned for police to be waiting at the next station, due to the tiny shove you claim. And the fact you don't believe I've spent my entire life here in Oakland only proves to me how committed to unreality you really are.
Joined: May 2009
Current Posts: 424
It's hard to fathom that someone with your lack of critical reasoning skills gets so beligerent so easily.
Joined: May 2009
Current Posts: 424
I now realize I've made the mistake of giving bluepeas the attention she so desperately craves. Well, no more of that!
Joined: Dec 2007
Current Posts: 129
I grew up in Oakland, went to elementary school, junior high, and Oakland HS. Left Oakland for college, returned to Oakland after a few years working in industry, and stayed in Oakland for 10 more years. I'm no thug, not stupid, and reasonably street smart. Weapons and trash talking are not part of my lifestyle. I know everything I need to know about black folk. The nature of guys like Oscar Grant is well understood. Bluepeas, it is tolerance of criminals -- like your tolerance -- that makes Oakland such an interesting place.
Joined: Aug 2008
Current Posts: 21
Hey Blue, I read that same article last week. A witness said OG and another passenger shoved one another and after the witness stopped it, the other guy kept yelling at OG to get off the bart and they could finish it there. Later in the day another story came out and you must have missed it. You are right about OG being involved in only one altercation according to witnesses. I sent you an email
CBS5 wrote, "Zafiratos didn't identify Grant as being one of the participants in the fight, but on Tuesday one of Grant's friends, 16-year-old Jamil Dewar, had testified for the prosecution that Grant, who is black, got into a fight with a white man over name calling.
When Rains showed Zafiratos a photograph of David Horowitch, Zafiratos identified him as being the white passenger who was fighting the black passenger.
But when Rains then called Horowitch, 34, to the witness stand, Horowitch said, "I didn't get in no fight that night" and "I have no problem with Oscar Grant."
Joined: May 2009
Current Posts: 424
You left out a key part of explaining: Horowitch is lately denying any admissions about his own fighting with Oscar Grant that night because he, like Grant was, is a paroled felon, for whom that fighting could become a punishable violation of parole conditions. So of course he's going to lie to cover his tracks.......
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 14
there are stipulations in parole and probation..... and most of the clauses out there state that any police contact is a violation or would be a viloation of his parole. so if in the begening he said he was in a fight, then he was.... if he changed his statement now that would be purgery.... so either way he is scr(e) w (ed).. well hopefully his PO will get him too.
and oscar was not that innocent.... and there is information that will never be released to the general public before and possibly after the trial....
killing of a person+intent=murder.....
there was no intent. it was a horrible accident. and hopefully Meserle with not be charged with murder.
but take into account all the thugs, [bleep]s, etc.... that have killed and are out on the street cause they snitched to save their on arzzzz..... and ya know what, they are out there doing the same ol/ thing they were doing before.
Joined: Jan 2009
Current Posts: 20
I personally hate the police but im not stupid because of it. This officer should be charged with murder! Yes, we all know and the officer himself knows that this shooting was a mistake, but it was know accident. Grant was face down on the floor, i don't think he was resisting arrest, but even if he was the MULTIPLE officers had it under control. One officer was on his knee! and your trying to tell me that he was too ot of control. Grant did nthing wrong, yyou don't even know if he was fighting! The trains were overcrowded, that could have caused shoving and etc. And stop calling him a goon, just because he was black he had to be a thug/gangster/ or something had to be wrong with him right?? This is rediculous! Maybe the video isn't the only evidence but it definetly is most of it. Many things that people are trying to say about Grant is COMPLETELY irrevelent. I know they wat to give this officer te easy way out and charge him with something crazy such as involuntary manslaughter (if anything it should be volutary) and its just unfortunate. He didt think it was a taser, and he shouldnt have brang a taser out in the first place! If he wasnt hancuffed (he was restricted by somthing though) the proper thing the officer should have done is bring out handcuffs. It seems that police do get away with anything. If there was no video he surely would have got off and probably this murderer would still have been working for bart. But now, the whole world has seen these vicious things that these so called "protectors" do to minorities. You are correct, cops are trained to use their guns to kill. So how was this an accident? If he brought out his gun his intent was to kill, and he should have never brught out his gun in the first place. THE POLICE DONT HAVE THE RIGHT TO EXECUTE PEOPLE OR EVEN JUDGE THEM, THESE COPPS ARE DOING THINGS THAT ARE ILLEGAL. ITS CALLED CRIMINAL CONDUCT. YES THE COP MADE A MISTAKE BUT IT WAS INTETIONAL. THIS WAS NO ACCIDENT, BUT CCALLING IT ONE MIGHT HELP YET ANOTHER ONE OF THESE MURDERER COPS GET OFF.
Joined: Nov 2008
Current Posts: 601
"YES THE COP MADE A MISTAKE BUT IT WAS INTETIONAL"
WOW...A Literal Contradiction...
Joined: Mar 2009
Current Posts: 20
That's some pretty concise analysis, there, Trashman.
The only thing I want to add, for the sake of balance, is that there are those of us who agree with everything you said, but are deeply uncomfortable with watching the videos and evaluating all the facts. Keeping in mind that I agree with your analysis, I still wish this situation could have been handled and resolved without a homicide.
I bet Mehserle and his family, and Grant's family can all agree on that.
Joined: Mar 2009
Current Posts: 20
That's some pretty concise analysis, there, Trashman.
The only thing I want to add, for the sake of balance, is that there are those of us who agree with everything you said, but are deeply uncomfortable with watching the videos and evaluating all the facts. Keeping in mind that I agree with your analysis, I still wish this situation could have been handled and resolved without a homicide.
I bet Mehserle and his family, and Grant's family can all agree on that.
Joined: Jun 2008
Current Posts: 290
Yes Swimmer32, I completely forgot about that! (Officer Konopasek's muder) Very good point!
Also I for got who mentioned it, but Grant was not cuffed (thank you false reporting on KTVU's part) and if you do your homework, there a several cases where an Officer accidentally thought he was using a taser and killed someone. No riots; no convictions.
Joined: Jan 2008
Current Posts: 752
Do not forget Off. James Williams who was ambushed on the 580 freeway! He died because Chad Rhodes was nothing but a coward who shot at the officers (who did not see him) from an embankment. Suffice it to say that shooting and killing those who are not planning or prepared to shoot back is not reserved for the police alone. Oh well, it is better to engage in the revisionist history offered by the PC far left who like the police to always be wrong and the criminals to be misunderstood.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 88
Thank you for pointing out the legal realities of the situation. I have said before, and I will say it again, this nothing more nor less than a judicial lynching being carried out to appease the most ignorant and violent elements of Oakland society.
Joined: Jan 2009
Current Posts: 24
God is frowning down on those who condone and glorify hatred and violence. Nothing we do can be hidden from him - He sees everything.
A very serious crime took place at the Fruitvale Bart Station on New Years Day. God's servant was shot in the back and killed.
Now this matter is in the hands of law enforcement. I am an American and I trust that our law enforcers will ensure justice is properly carried out.
No one is above the law. If a police officer commits a crime he should be punished accordingly. If he is innocent he should be set free.
We can not harm or kill another person without answering to God. Justice will prevail.
Joined: Jan 2009
Current Posts: 24
Grant a servant of God? Are you out of your mind...the only one he was serving was himself, and it got him killed. If there are any servants of God it is the police who continually venture out into our community to protect us from men like Grant. Many of these officers don't even live in Oakland...God bless them for having the mental and physical courage just to show up to work.
Joined: Jan 2009
Current Posts: 20
these murders that they call cops aren't servants of god. And Oscar wasn't only serving himself, he was serving his girlfriend, and his daughter! And these cowards don't protect anybody but themselves and their own race. Just becuse they have a hard job doesn't give them a right to beat, tase, and kill people whenever they feel like it. If people don't have the courage to be a cop they shouldn't , they don't have to, and nobody is forcing them.
Joined: Nov 2008
Current Posts: 601
these murders that they call cops aren't servants of god.
Correct. They are servants of society.
And Oscar wasn't only serving himself, he was serving his girlfriend, and his daughter!
By getting trashed, fighting and getting arrested? Right. He was a convict and served time. He was a noble example of honest productive American citizenship. [rollseyes]
And these cowards don't protect anybody but themselves and their own race.
If you wanna pick a fair fight, join MMA. Cops aren't supposed to fight fair.
Just becuse they have a hard job doesn't give them a right to beat, tase, and kill people whenever they feel like it.
Nobody said they did, but some of us are more inclined to offer the benefit of the doubt to public servants because of their past service, rather than offer the benefit of the doubt instead to a known thug and convict because of the color of his skin.
If people don't have the courage to be a cop they shouldn't , they don't have to, and nobody is forcing them.
You confuse courage with stupidity.
If cops fought fair they wouldn't last very long, would they? That's why they have non lethal weapons, so they don't have to kill everyone they meet.
Moron. And your posts reflect it.
Joined: Jan 2009
Current Posts: 20
humm, they on;t have to kill everybody they meet, yet they killed an unarmed man face down??wt[f];make sense, and stop judging people you don't know. And im not giving thm the benefit of the doubt, and nobody else should either. These unfortunate "killings" have hapened way too often to give anybody the benefit of the doubt.
Joined: Nov 2008
Current Posts: 601
Please demonstrate how many accidental homicides were committed by police officers nationally compared to intentional killings in general.
Or is that ratio perfectly acceptable to you?
Be careful with your answer, I am prepared to make you look like an idiot. You make it all too easy.
Joined: Aug 2008
Current Posts: 2
The riots happened in Oakland, they didn't happen nationally. They happened in Oakland because of high number of police shootings resulting in fatalities/homicides last year. Grant's was around the 7th.
Joined: Nov 2008
Current Posts: 601
Very well,
Please demonstrate how many accidental homicides were committed by police officers in Oakland compared to intentional killings in general. (2008)
2009 just got started.
Joined: Jan 2009
Current Posts: 20
it may have been a mistake but it was no accident! That may sound like a condtradiction to you but its not! Disrigard for someone's life is murder. And please demonstrate how many accidental homicides are commited by officcers in Oakland on the MINORITY community comapared to whites.
"First, let me say that most "hate crimes" are directed against Black people and other peoples of color, and perpetrated by white racists or cops. These crimes are not perpetrated by Black people against whites, as the conservatives like to put forward, and Blacks commit a smaller number of crimes against whites than we do against each other, but then so does every other group. So the conservative arguments are false. Yes, figures don't lie, but liars sure do use figures. Nor does the fact of Black homicides mean what they want us to read from them. The main thing is that we should not look to the cops or the government to "save" us from ourselves."
http://www.afromerica.com/news/columns/whiteonwhitecrime.php
Joined: Jan 2009
Current Posts: 85
You are about the dumbest person on this forum.
What do you think an article at this address would say?
http://www.afromerica.com/news/columns/whiteonwhitecrime.php
With "afroamerica" in the domain name it couldn't possibly lean towards anti-white beliefs.
I have been the victim of racial epitaphs all my life, white-boy this and cracker that. If I said "what you want blacky?" I would be a racist. More proof that racism and hate crimes only go one way in some retards eyes. LOL
"Mehserle, taking out trash one bullet at a time""
Joined: Jan 2009
Current Posts: 339
"I have been the victim of racial epitaphs all my life, white-boy this and cracker that."
He said "all my life". LOL.
Joined: Nov 2008
Current Posts: 45
anytime one of you idiots disobey or act tough or want to loud talk a cop...u are disregarding your own safety. So..keep it up...tons more holes in the ground for all u ex cons who want to be tough to the cops.
Joined: Jan 2009
Current Posts: 339
With comments like that, it's no wonder that there's just an onpour of sympathy whenever a cop gets killed in Oakland...
Joined: Jun 2008
Current Posts: 54
Among the Oakland rioters were scores of nonresidents who are "professional rioters" known for their political anarchy. Some came from as near as Berkeley & San Franscisco, and some came in from other states. I read a blog from a Philadelphia politico who made a special trip to participate in the planned "demonstrations." And I'll never forget the racist arrogance of a pro-felon activist from SF, who belittled the riot-caused property losses of Creative African Braids shop in downtown Oakland. She's quoted as dismissing that vandalism by saying of its owner: "She should be glad she just lost her business and not her life." Then the knowitall activist returned to SF where she lives and works on behalf of jail-prisoner issues (of course, making a point to excluse Mehserle). Gee, I can't help wondering if she'd say the same things if tourists came and wantonly vandalized HER home/business for reaons having nothing to do with her (and yet the repair of which was partially subsidized from city money funded by her city's taxpayers).
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 14
by leaving them to go party? by leaving to go drink...get drunk? by fighting? by going to jail??? and better yet, by selling sope???!!!! doh!!! bettcha didnt know that!!!!
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 8
But I AM a White WOMAN. I'm not sure I get the tone of your post. Are you being sarcastic because as a white man you know police wil never never raise a violate hand to you, and just by the mere fact that there is a nearly 0% percent chance of a white male dying by the hand of police officer the odds of being harmed by gangs members have to be higher? I know of what I speak because I see it at every encounter I have ever had with a Police Officer that my White Pass speaks volumes and protects me from the police beyond immagination. If Oscar Grant were White, The white community would be completely outraged. But, since he was not, many in the White community may be thinking that the officers acted as only they could. BUT ONLY because so many in the White community are completely ignorant as to how police operate and the law operates in real life.
Joined: Jan 2008
Current Posts: 752
"If Oscar Grant were White, The white community would be completely outraged." No, I wouldn't! I'd be thrilled if it were a white tu-rd that was taken out of the gene pool. Kind of like when a Hells Angel gets smoked or dies in a donorcycle accident? Yee haw!
Joined: Sep 2007
Current Posts: 411
I think we all already know what your point of view would be....and, that's b/c you have no sense of justice Jif, nor the ability to discern right from wrong.
Joined: Jan 2008
Current Posts: 752
Well, my ability to discern right from wrong is completely intact. It is you who offered in another thread that Grant's criminal history wasn't that bad. Is this an example of the right from wrong that you would have me emulate?
Joined: May 2009
Current Posts: 44
"wasn't that bad"? Wow! if there's anything that epitomises why Oakland is the cesspool of the West, it's comments like that. Grant was just another Oakland P O S, a Mixon in training and well along his way. That t urd had a dozen, count 'em 12 convictions in 4 years, and since he was in prison for 2 years of that time, it was 12 convictions in 2 years! What a blessing it was that the cop offed this loser, who, if he hadn't been brawling on BART at 2AM would never have attracted police attention. And let's guess just what his arrest and conviction record was before he turned 18, and how many bastards he spawned then and would have now if his sorry [bleep] were still alive? C'mon Oakiefilth, give us your best guess! But enough. It's enablers and apologists for scum who crap up these MBs and sh:tholes like Uhuru House that are the root of the problem. And BTW, it's not the color of your skin that makes you [bleeeps], but your BEHAVIOR.
Joined: Nov 2008
Current Posts: 45
if grant was white..u fools wouldnt know a damn thing happened....it wouldnt have been on the news..wouldnt have been riots in oakland.. just another dumb idiot who did listen to police and paid for it.
it isnt murder.. the bart cop walks...so..start rioting now or crying like little bia-tches that u are.. ohh...they pick on us..the police and whitey isnt fair to usss...boo hoo...go buy kleenexes...
grant is dead...mehserle is no longer a cop....so...grant's family will be compensated.... finally his family got something useful out of Oscar....good job OG...
Grow a pair and stop whining and complaining about someone treated you unfair...
Joined: Jan 2009
Current Posts: 339
You've said the word "t urd" 32 times today, Jif.
For your own good: www.thesaurus.com
Joined: Aug 2008
Current Posts: 21
WoW coincidentally 1.618 uses that word [] a lot! Interesting. I didn't even realize Jif used that word.
Joined: Jan 2008
Current Posts: 752
Oh my gosh mehret, the planets must be aligned in tu-rd/Virgo making Leo on the rising and Scorpio in our moon. Shut up! In fact, why don't you and Rob drink yourselves to death like that kid in Orinda?
Joined: May 2009
Current Posts: 14
The BART shooting was/is a very sad thing and should be investigated. What is even sadder is all these people tearing up their town - protesting in the name of justice! IF they are truly concerned about justice for the innocent why are they not protesting all the gang shootings? How many innocent people have lost their lives or been permantly injured? Where are the protesters getting upset about young children getting shot in drive-bys, kids at their piano lessons being left in a wheel chair, college students leaving school to take care of their sick grandparent?
The kind of violence that happen is not any better than what happened on that BART platform. You can not protest violence with violence! And - you can not protest selected violence. You want your city back? You want your city cleaned up? Breaking windows and tipping over garbage cans is certainly going to help - or - you could be an adult and start doing something prodictive to correct the situation.
Would ther have been a protest if the police had been shot?
Joined: Sep 2007
Current Posts: 411
Welcome. I c u only recently signed up for membership @ our Oakland Tribune Madhouse
Forum! I must warn you though, if you post daily & don't brown-nose, expect to go thru a trying initiation process by a few earth disturbing non-city dwellers(whom I find hard to believe do not live in the very city they come to condemn DAILY), & rogue cops (tossed behind a desk), monitoring forums from Oakland and suspects w/ My Space and Facebook accounts, along w/ the da's office. If you're on the run or just interested on everything going on in da town and want to live quietly & want to steer clear of all the bull (and also protect your account info), I suggest u also register @ Topix http://www.topix.com/oakland . Other than that, the rest of the members are fun, sociable and informative.
In response to your post: We do have protests, meetings, rallies, and conferences weekly against gang & criminal activity & guns. Make yourself accessible to the right forums, blogs and community websites and you'll be informed thru newsletters. Residents of the community, our churches, and community leaders also inform us through flyers @ our community centers, stores, mailings, etc. As for property being destroyed during the protestings, from what I heard many of the property owners actually understood that someone lost their life and felt the message being put out was more important than material things. I bet you didn't hear about the boy who got shot 17x's in the back by the police in New Orleans on New Years, hours before or after Oscar? http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/01/09/new.orleans.shooting/ Well, their local news site out there said maybe they need to be more like Oakland and make alot of noise in order to be heard, and get something done about it. But anyway I have company now & have to go. Have a nice day
Joined: Jan 2008
Current Posts: 752
"As for property being destroyed during the protestings, from what I heard many of the property owners actually understood that someone lost their life and felt the message being put out was more important than material things." How comforting for you to have believed this hogwash. Did you hear that from the business owners? Doubt it!
Joined: Jun 2008
Current Posts: 54
I doubt the veracity of that quote too. In fact, I recall a shop owner speaking on tv right after it happened who said the exact opposite. But Grant's fans are shameless in posting untrue things about this tragedy. Like the poster above who claims there were no fights on the BART train that fatal night. But in reality, court proceedings last week already documented witnesses who ID'd Oscar Grant as one of the men they saw participating in the New Year's night fights on the BART train.
Joined: May 2009
Current Posts: 14
ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR [bleep] MIND??
Joined: Oct 2008
Current Posts: 35
Because the people who are rioting are the same gang members, criminals and drive by'ers. Real citizens of Oakland who are outraged by this incident are not the same ones who are rioting. If the officer is acquitted, there'll be rioting. If he's found guilty, there'll be rioting. If he dies in prision, there'll be rioting. If he dies of old age...so on and so forth. The criminals DON'T need a reason to be criminals and put innocent people and there businesses at risk because they have nothing better to do with their time because none of them are educated enough to hold a minimum wage job!
Joined: Jan 2009
Current Posts: 339
OK, so why isn't there a riot right now? If people just riot for no reason..as you said. You're in denial. I agree that riots don't accomplish anythiing but don't act like it wasn't provoked. The people of Oakland need to take political action, and completely overhaul THEIR police department. That's where their energy should be spent. The Oakland police department is an abomination, and is part and parcel of the same decay seen everywhere in Oakland. This police force operates with zero class. They take the mentality of street thugs, because they are street thugs. When you have a police department that functions like this, riots are inevitible. Most Oakland residents are more afraid of the police than they are the thugs. They shouldn't be, because they're more likely to die at the hands of a thug. But they are. Instead of the police being concerned about this misunderstanding, they instead just mock it, and continue to go right out and patrol the streets with their arrogant attitudes. Whenever there's a scandal, the police want sympathy. They want sympathy from the same people they mock. It's unreal. It's classless. It's the Oakland Police Department. A sad, troubled bunch of goons, who need to be replaced by true civil servants who enforce the law with the supreme law of the land in mind, instead of their egos and chronic need for admiration and sympathy.
Joined: May 2009
Current Posts: 14
Then WHY are there no protests against ALL of the street thugs. There have been hundreds of street thug murders but have one happen in uniform and everyone goes crazy. Take it down to a "people" level - style of clothing aside. I am not sure what I believe about meserle - intentional or accidental - but I do believe that everyone should be just as upset and concerned EVERY TIME a life is lost, no matter who pulled the trigger. Maybe if more poeple would help police with the gang shootings more investigations would be more productive. What you are saying is it is that you can live with the "thugs" doing it but ... It is time for the general population of Oakland to get some class and stand up to EVERY murder.
Joined: Jan 2008
Current Posts: 752
Don't waste your time Tony. Rob Thomas is a self loathing white man who hates the police, esp. OPD, and thinks that there is a Freudian explanation for all criminal behavior as long as that criminal behavior is not a cop's. Rob will probably argue that change starts from the top, therefore the government must first change to, I don't know, lead us simple citizens in the right direction. Certainly the citizens couldn't just do the right thing, because it is the right thing to do. Rob prattles on about the dysfunction of OPD as if it is unexpected. By his account OPD is a true reflection of the citizens it serves. Hey Rob, their just doing good, old fashioned community policing!
Joined: Oct 2008
Current Posts: 35
so what you are saying is that the businesses in Oakland deserved to have their stores vandalized because THEY were responsible for the shooting?? Or when the Radiers lost the Superbowl, the peoples' whose cars got torched were responsible for the loss??? Or when the jury acquitted the cops in the Rodney King beating because the Korean Store owners acquitted the cops??
People are more afraid of the cops?? Please. What neighborhood do you live in? I hear gun shots EVERY NIGHT in my east oakland neighborhood and the shots aren't coming from the police. How many cops have you actually met? I know several. When the young black people in oakland act like they are above the law, then they should expect to be put in their place. When they don't have that attitude, the cops leave them alone. I know there are cops that are excessive but so are teachers, employers, and anyone else who is in a position of power. To blame the cops is a copout (no pun intended) and the problem with society....it's ALWAYS someone elses fault and it's "because I'm black".
How many black people have been killed by cops comared to how many black people are killed by black people???? Venture to take a guess??? Behavior of a few does not equal the behavior of all...ever heard of sterotyping??
Oh...and are YOU stepping up to be the "true civil servant" you claim we need? I doubt it because you'll probably be the next one on the thugs list!
Joined: May 2009
Current Posts: 14
I am so glad to hear that people know what is right and what is wrong. First off - somehow I don't think the cops just decided - hey, lets get that one. Generally when there is smoke there is fire. Second - maybe if there was not so many shootings the cops would not be so on edge and jumpy. Third - if respect is given it is generally returned. Every problem in Oakland is not due to the OPD! If these so called malinged citizens want to get into gun fights and battle over some turf why are they not in the military - or better yet why are they not actively involved in improving the OPD? Anyone can [bleep] but it takes someone with a backbone - not a gun - to try to correct the problem. Time to man up or shut up fellas!!!
Joined: Nov 2008
Current Posts: 601
"If these so called malinged citizens want to get into gun fights and battle over some turf why are they not in the military"
The last place you want these thug bastards is at a range learning how to kill en masse with all sorts of weapons, and then getting out, coming home, and taking their new skills back to the block.
And we don't want people who have already earned a criminal record. I don't want a liar, thief or cheater in my foxhole. You can keep them.
Joined: May 2009
Current Posts: 14
You have a good point SJ but I don't think any of them have the balls for it anyway. Although maybe that is just what they need - a 6 week stint in boot camp might turn them into men instead of little boys with big boy toys.
By the way - Thank you for having the balls to do what you do!
Joined: Nov 2008
Current Posts: 601
Yer welcome. (All Marines do 13 weeks in boot camp and an additional month of infantry training BTW, six weeks barely makes an airman...lol)
I do think prison should be like boot camp. (Minus weapons)
You know, endless PT, inspections, and discipline. Hazing and backbreaking labor for those that get out of line. You don't want to follow orders? I guess you're not hungry today. But don't worry, tomorrow you'll be hungry enough to train.
Because that's what rehabilitation is. "TRAIN, or PAIN."
Break em down to nothing, build them up together, teach them how to be a member of a team instead of just individuals. Show them what they are capable of when they work together, teach them to respect themselves and each other. Set a standard and they'll live up to it.
Cause that's the problem with our corrections system. If you can build an honorable fighting man out of a sloppy couch potato video gamer with a little character building discipline, motivation, and teamwork, why can't you do it with a felon?
I don't get it.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 8
Lets recap the events of 2009 shall we? January first NEW YEARS , unarmed black manlying down on a bart platform : killed by Bart Officer May 26 White woman calls 911 telling them 2 black men in a black cadillac have kidanapped her and her daughter and they are in their trunk. After 2 days of searching, the cops actually thinking they had found "the cadillac" the woman and her daughter are found in DISNEY WORLD!!!!!!
Joined: May 2009
Current Posts: 424
Your biased summary left out: black man convicted of killing white San Jose cop; black man guily of killing 2 white plus 2 mixed race Oakland cops, and linked to multiple rapes of adult victims + minors; black men + teens responsible for over 50 new 2009 murders in Oakland and Richmond.... So, anything else you + your "brilliant" misleading insinuations wanna tell us?
========
(the above is in response to berk4babe wrote:
"Lets recap the events of 2009 shall we? January first NEW YEARS , unarmed black manlying down on a bart platform : killed by Bart Officer May 26 White woman calls 911 telling them 2 black men in a black cadillac have kidanapped her and her daughter and they are in their trunk. After 2 days of searching, the cops actually thinking they had found "the cadillac" the woman and her daughter are found in DISNEY WORLD!!!!!!" )
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 14
hey no offense, but there is way more to recap for oakland.... lets see here
4 homicides 145 aggrvated assults 151 robbery 345 simple assults 249 narcotics offenses 480 vehicle thefts 243 burglary
ALL IN MAY OF 09!!!! and those are just the reported crimes.... hahaha recap my butt..... the National Guard needs to come in, madatory curfew, and hey how bout this MORE OFFICERS!!!! not less.
so dont blame the Officer for a mistake!!!!! M I S T A K E!!!!! the good people of Oakland work hard, stay clean, and outta trouble. but that is few and far between.... look at Acron, Lower Bottoms, Chesnut Linden, Manadella, blow it all up with the crack heads, drug dealers, pimps, gang (Ban) (g e** rs) and we would see a marked inprovement.... look at the stats yourself.. you can not hide those.....
Joined: May 2009
Current Posts: 14
Lets recap - shall we? How many innocent Blacks, Whites, Asian, Hispanics were killed by gang related shootings in 2009? The problem is they ALL are murder - but only special ones are worth getting upset about? Protesting about? Pointing fingers and demanding justice about? Shall I go on? As a White male I have been on the other side of predjudice over seas and it is ugly and vile. Getting threatened and chased down the street by a car load of guys because your eyes are round. Was the entire island to blame or just some indaviduals acting on their own? My Son is dating an African American lady and he got a taste of it when her father did not like him - before he even met him - because he was not Black.! After he was man enough to sit down with my son and really get to know him he found out he was a pretty cool guy and really loves his daughter. They are now friends. What a concept - productive communication!
This problem is not going to get solved by looking for all the differences but by looking for the similarities and embrassing them. We need to look for the good and focus on that. It sounds hokie but give it a try. Is every German responsable for WW2? Every Asian responsable for Pearl Harbor? Every White responsable for slavery? Every Jew responsable for killing Christ? Every cop responsable for murder? Everyone is responsable for living together as one to solve the problems.
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 14
how do you think that will work out?
80% of the people of Oakland dont give a ratz Ar(z)s) bout anyone but them selves and their money, cars, dope..... Some in Oakland choose to point out the differences and make it about race, money, material things... etc. some in oakland choose to stand there eith their hand out wanting to take something, other then working for it. some feel that they are owed something, for nothing......
thier are very hard working families, very nice homes, nice jobs, even some are struggling, but they love the area they area in, because back in the day, it was not "as bad"
i take the individual person for what they are.... (not the color, religion, sex preferance etc).... you tick me off, thats on you. but i am tired of paying for persons who dont care and are not willing to work for it, or even try to work hard.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 8
Everything you say is correct. The crimes you mention that get people upset are the ones that make the papers. I mean we can't get upset what we don't hear about. So unfortunately we're dependent on the media to keep us up to date.
My point in comparing what happened in (where was it Philadelphia?) with a Caucasion woman using old stereotypes and maliciously accusing 2 black men to cover her own criminal acts makes everything you say that much harder. And clouding up our whole judicial system. Being a caucausion woman myself, who really has been held up at gunpoint and so on, I am appalled at people who use the system so irresponsibly making the whole process that much harder for everybody else. She needs to be made an example of to prevent that type of crime from happening again. As another person pointed out, filing false reports-- though felonies are almost never charged. May as well not be on the books. That makes our whole system that much more suspect to unimaginable crimes committed on us as a whole. No telling what other autrocities are slipping thru the cracks.
Joined: Jan 2008
Current Posts: 752
"I am appalled at people who use the system so irresponsibly making the whole process that much harder for everybody else. She needs to be made an example of to prevent that type of crime from happening again." You mean like Tawana Brawley and the so-called Reverend Al Sharpton were made to pay for doing the same thing? Get over it!
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 8
That you completely missed the point of my comment.
You're talking about alot of people who have been convicted, or will be convicted for their ALLEGED crimes. I'm talking about a WHITE WOMAN WHO COMMITTED A FELONY (perjury IS a felony, remember?) AND IS PRESENTLY MERELY CHARGED WITH A MISDAMEANOR.....I personally can name another WHITE woman who committed the felony of perjurty and hasn't been charged with ANYTHING PERIOD.
AND as far as the BART COP, I highly doubt he'll pay as much for his "mistake" as all of the people you're sighting are paying or going to pay for "theirs".
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 14
the persons i am talking about, wowoowo, they are some many.. and thier crimes were and are not MISTAKES.... big difference....
Mistakes are accidents. they are not done with intent. i walk up to you, pull a gun out and shoot you. INTENT.
there is enough evidence to show this was a mistake, and accident... very tragic one. but an accident. and the other difference is, if it were a black officer, the white community would not go and destroy thier community. protests, probably. but not trashing their cities.
and there are a lot of "white" persons who have gotten away with thing, along with "black", asian, etc. its not about color.
and due to persons brining "COLOR" into the crimes, there are plenty of people out there that claim "color" as a defense, and against the law enforcement, who are gulity of the crimes.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 8
Sure maybe the Bart cop shot by "mistake".....BUT WE'LL NEVER KNOW FOR SURE....ONLY HE KNOWS. Just as all the cases/"recaps" that were sited in sorry attempts to MOCK my recaps are all situations that none of us will really know for sure what happened.. ONLY WHAT WE'RE TOLD by DA's and courts who LIE THEIR [bleep] OFF.
Granted, the same MAY be applied to the incidents I sited....BUT I THINK ITS PRETTY CLEAR...WHITE WOMAN BLAMES TO BLACK MEN FOR KID-A-NAPPING HER AND HER DAUGHTER....THEY WERE AT DISNEYWORLD!!!! I must say I am relieved that it didn't turn out to be another Susan Smith and she didn't use the hoax as a cover for murdering her own daughter!!! But if the news is reporting correctly, and they may NOT be, but if they are.....This woman has been charged with a misdameanor!! REPORTING FALSE CRIMES IS A FELONY!!!!! SAYS IT IN BOLD PRINT AT THE BOTTOM OF EVERY CRIMINAL REPORT WE FILE AT THE POLICE STATION.
If they hadn't figured out her hoax, the number of innocent people that could have been impacted by her lies while the police systematically stopped, detained and/or arrested Black man after Black man trying to find her and her daugher could have been infinite.
The irony: The people involved in all of the incidents named to mock my point I'm SURE will pay more for their alleged crimes then she ever will.
Joined: Jan 2008
Current Posts: 752
"REPORTING FALSE CRIMES IS A FELONY!!!!! SAYS IT IN BOLD PRINT AT THE BOTTOM OF EVERY CRIMINAL REPORT WE FILE AT THE POLICE STATION."
Sure it is, but one that so rarely gets charged it might just as well not be on the books. BTW the word is cited, not sited or sighted. You're killing me with your constant misspellings. It is curious that there is a direct correlation between the number of misspelled words in a post and the vigor with which that poster supports the criminal formally known as Oscar Grant. I wonder why that is?
Joined: May 2009
Current Posts: 44
but staying il or semi-literate is the hallmark of 'cool' culture. The kind that glorifies murderous monsters like Mixon and Campbell, rapists like Burpee, and career criminals like Grant. These are the sub-human types that have made Oakland the sh:th0le of the West. Many of these vermin hang around Uhuru house, the muslime 'bakery' and similar cesspools.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 8
oops I used the word "sited" instead of "cited". My constant mispellings are out of control. I guess that is an interesting correlation isn't it? A little like the correlation between a criminal(stealing money from the job) making false accusations about not just a crime but a very henious crime and then being found at Disney World. The symbolism of Disney World in this case is profound.