Posted on Wednesday, 11/04/2009 - 8:49 p.m. PST — by Traveler
When the us versus them mentality inside OPD changes, that is when we know there will have been a "sea change" within the police culture of OPD.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Current Posts: 691
Of course Burris will stay as long as necessary. He is lining his pocket with this job. And since he is the one who benefits from police "brutality" he lines his pockets either way. He's worse than the OPD.
Do you blame the OPD for an us vs them mentality, when they go to make an arrest and onlookers yell at them, insult them, throw bottles at them, and generally behave in an "us vs them" mentality?
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 70
If you want attitudes to change, try showing OPD a little friendliness. Smiling and waving when a police car drives by goes a long way to defusing tension. If you're not a criminal why wouldn't you welcome OPD in your neighborhood? The night shift at OPD is mainly young recruits, and we shape their attitudes. Take a little responsibility and do what you can to improve community relations.
Joined: Mar 2008
Current Posts: 65
Since "the riders" were never convicted of anything despite 2 expensive trials in Oakland there never should have been any oversight of the OPD in the first place. There never should have been any money paid out to the so called victims either. Since there was no conviction, there was no crime proven so there certainly shouldn't have been a pay out from the city. John Russo is always quick with the checkbook though, too bad he's spending our $. As for extending this farce-were you really expecting any common sense leadership from the clowns on the city council? More important they spend their time arguing about who gets to park where, that's all they are good for anyway.
As for the OPD having an us and them mentality, I would like to invite any inquisitive group to join us in my East Oakland neighborhood for an experiement. My group will bring high-powered guns and shoot 4 of the other group's members and as they lay bleeding in the street we will dance around them laughing and yelling, "payback is a _itch". Afterward we can question the surviving group members and see if they felt alienated enough from the shooters to possibly develop an us and them attitude.
Joined: Jun 2009
Current Posts: 115
"us vs. them" (between cops + disadvantaged classes) does not originate from within opd. it's a eternal class conflict shared in cities all around the country and world.
Joined: Jun 2008
Current Posts: 290
It is "Us vs. them," dummy. Right vs. wrong. Good vs. Evil. Savages vs. Order.
When you are fighting an enemy, and make no mistake, parolees and probationers, drug dealers, rapists, robbers are the enemy-you MUST have an Us vs. Them mentality.
Just like the Soldiers and Marines in Afghanistan have an Us vs Them mentality, so should the police dept. And just like the soldiers and marines in Afghanistan, the enemy has sympathizers. And in Oakland, the sympathizers are ignorant people like Traveler; armchair critics, who spew lies, deception and gobbledygook.
Joined: Jun 2008
Current Posts: 691
eggbert's back tellin it like it is.
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 1377
My comments did not refer to cops versus criminals. My comment referred to the police versus the community. Interesting that you immediately assumed I was referring to the criminal class of Oakland. Interesting but not surprising. My comments referred to the entire community of Oakland--the law abiding citizens as well as the smaller criminal class.
Your continuing insulting manner and specious attacks only proves the very point I was making. They prove that you think you are in a separate class that knows better than and is apart from the rest of the community. That you are doing this work alone in some kind of warrior class apart from the community. Not only do you refuse on principle to ever acknowledge the community's role nor partnershi8p in the resolution of crime, but you have an everlasting need to put police officers who come into Oakland with little training and often less education, on some kind of pedestal as well.
Your comments and lies reflect on you Eggbert and all your insecurities and your personal need for power. Because I remember quite well when you first entered the realm of community policing, not only did you know and continue not to know how to operate with community members other than by engaging in either alternative insulting or false stroking, but that your abilities even as a police officer leave much to be desired.
And far from being an armchair critic, it was myself not YOU who first challenged our new police chief Richard Word to bring in the CRT team and called for a meeting with Councilwoman Brunner in 6 months after Word's entry as chief to make sure this happened. This happened when you first came on board yourself. You have grown little intellectually or emotionally since then. In fact, it seems you've only progressed backwards and downhill rapidly--professionally and ideologically and emotionally. And the two in your case, are very much the reason why you will progress nowheres higher than your present state in law enforcement.
Eggbert, you might be bright, but you are NOT intelligent. And you continuously make the mistake of making assumptions about others and plunging into situations without thinking through consequences. This is because you are more interested in manipulation than consultation. And that is what community policing should be about--partnership, a concept you seem to be religiously allergic too.
Joined: Jun 2009
Current Posts: 115
i said nothing of criminals. i spoke of disadvantaged classes.
you of all people should be able to tell the difference. but you cant?!! no, you put words in my mouth i didnt even say, for you to launch your arrogant tirade from.
no i dont put cops on a pedestal and blindly support them. but i do notice when others (including you) always wipe their feet on them, and make false accusations against others not on your bandwagon.
Traveler did you know by now your trademark is doing exactly what you tell others not to do, but doing it even worse? like your latest tirade that criticizes others who have criticized - when it's you escalating criticism into personal namecalling. (naturally you feel entitled to call others "ignorant" - but we can expect a hissy-fit if that word is returned to you.)
lol, good luck with your holier-than-thou double-standards! it's an art-form you perfected.
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 1377
Good luck with your moral and ideological bankruptcy sockpuppet and puppetmaster. Have fun playing in your rightwing ideological sandbox now with the rest of the losers, moaners and foamers on this site while the grownups run things. It's all you have left now so I hope you enjoy it.
P.S. and of course, we know that neither Eggbert/Arroyo NEVER have hissy fits at all, right holier than thou? I always take into account who is making the criticism and take it with a grain of salt when it comes from you and your many and ever changing sockpuppets.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 87
Over and over and over again you demonstrate the racism typical of certain liberals: you equate poverty with criminality; you favor leaving criminals loose to predate on their favorite target - poor people; and you have extremely low expectations - intellectual and moral - for anyone who is either poor, non-White, or both.
It's actually pretty nauseating.
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 1377
attacks and lies. Funny how the people who accuse one of putting words into their mouths attribute so many political positions to me that I never advocated or stated.
Your post as usual is so full of the specious attacks and is so far adrift from my original response to this article and full of the continuing distortions and misstatements of my position that others have attrributed to me that it's not even worth bother correcting. But continue on grinding your usual axes Yakima and making all of your absurd and deliberate falsehoods. It's what you and the rest of the petty trolls on this site seem to do best and to most enjoy.
And believe me, petty is what most characterizes each and every one of you. Petty small people who need to incessantly lie and create positions for me that I don't hold because you have no real arguments. But we can depend on each and every one of you polished and practiced liars to continue in your pathological fabrications and distortions.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 87
There you go again, running with hares and hunting with the hounds. Every thing you ever write makes clear that you have incredibly low expectations of the poor, minorities, or those who are both. You were a schoolteacher, right? No wonder poor and/or minority youth don't learn anything.
BTW, has anyone ever told you that you come off sounding like an undereducated pompous pseudo-intellectual who has never had an original thought in her entire life?
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 1377
Ninny!
Joined: Jan 2008
Current Posts: 751
Yes Yakima Kid, nearly all of us have told Traveler that she sounds like "an undereducated pompous pseudo-intellectual who has never had an original thought in her entire life." After we did so she launched into a tirade about our mental well being and motiviations for disagreeing with her. Sort of like she has done with you. Anyway....
Joined: Jun 2009
Current Posts: 115
get help traveler. you need it!
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 1377
and the specious baseless lies end up in intellectually deadend alleyways, use the insult of the last resort.
LOL! Talk about predictable (and pathetic too)
Joined: Jun 2008
Current Posts: 290
Who the hell do you think I am, crazy lady? You talk like you know me personally or know who I am. I don't know you. I've never met your tinfoil hat wearing a ss.
Joined: May 2009
Current Posts: 424
Traveler made delusional accusations + attributions of you here, just as she routinely does of others on this board. It's how that bully baits for her verbose tirades &/or protracted bicker-sessions.
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 1377
added on to an entire series of lies? Poor defense Eggbert, but your usual.
Nonetheless, I am appreciate of the good things you did for me. But not the bad ones LOL!
p.s. Are you claiming now too that you are not a police officer? RTFLMAO!
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 1377
Stop the disintegration that is happening within Oakland and within our society today. This can only be addressed by a broad-based political movement and by greater intervention into the dysfunctionalism and corruption that exists today in all levels of our society.
And every day that goes by in this country, the multi-faceted dysfunction become worse along with the corruption at every level and in every issue.
The bottom line is we have lost our democracy in this country and we will not be able to get the issues resolved and the finances we need properly allocated until we regain our democracy.
Every foreclosure that comes about, every job loss, every medical benefit lost, every bankruptcy, every family stress and societal stress coupled with growing environmental stress, creates a new problem every day that can explode either inside or outside the home the way it exploded in Ft. Hood Texas today.
We are not yet at the opint where the impending social, economic and political dysfunctionality of California or the Feds is yet impinging on everyone. But we are rapidly approaching that point. And if you have not yet experienced it personally, give it a couple of years and you will. All of us will very soon I fear as our country's political and economic situation spins further and further out of control with more members of the middle class too now sinking daily into pauperism.
And I do not expect either your agreement nor understanding on this issue that we are all in this together and we are all going to become victims together too one of these days.
Joined: Jun 2008
Current Posts: 290
nah, I wouldn't go that far. But I don't know you and I've never met you. Seriously.
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 1377
go battle against evil! LOL!
Joined: Jun 2009
Current Posts: 115
quit being evil that battles others here. LOL!
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 1377
the respondee. Some of you law and order trolls need to learn to be more tolerant of others who don't think, walk and talk exactly like you and allow differences of opinion to be expressed without becoming immediately insulting and going into attack mode. I merely posted my opinion. This is my right because this is America. I think it's you folks who don't believe in America, not me.
Joined: Jun 2009
Current Posts: 115
my wordplay (of your post) just showed you dish it out but cant take what you dish!
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 1377
and power, not real communication. But keep on playing. You're just one of many horseflies that buzz around this site interested in copulating with each other. Eventually you all get screened out even when you have something worthwhile to say. Because you're all obnoxious and offensive.
Joined: Jun 2009
Current Posts: 115
all i'm doing is noting obnoxious offensive stuff some here do. your "shoot the messenger" rationalization game just proves it's you playing a power game. not me.
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 1377
You're insulting, offensive and unnecessarily abrasive and combative although perhaps not in your first response on this topic , but definitely in most of your other posts where you pick, pick, pick, attack, attack, attack. If you calling this "noting", you're living in a world of your own creation.
As for the "offensive stuff" part, you pick so much and so often at so many petty small things, that you're no longer taken seriously. But if you do want to be taken seriously, then you should save it for the important stuff and aim your criticism at what is being stated, rather than at the poster. I'm not saying that any of us including myself adhere to this at all times, particularly when there already is a history between posters. Also, when some posters spend most of their posts mainly engaging in personal attacks which are nontopical and do not address any issue other than being a personal attack in order to try and discredit a poster whose positions run counter to theirs.
The fact is, nobody is really going to change anyone's position in this forum unless it's done in a civil matter with a back and forth exchange. And it cannot be for the purpose of prevailing, only posing arguments. People can only change their positions when they are given the space to reflect. Not when they are being bombarded with attacks. But then that is not the aim of many posters or user names of which you appear to be one. You seem to primarily pop up for the sole purpose of attacking. And while you are here addressing what you deem to be "offensive", you're being offensive yourself. So, you will have to decide what your own purpose is.
Meanwhile, this forum has spun in mainly negative directions and devolved downwards when it could be a place where various stated positions could be debated back and forth. But that involves a basic attitude of respect towards others and acknowledgment that people are posting in good faith and good will according to their own beliefs. And the recognition that sometimes these beliefs run directly counter to others, but that these are beliefs and not personal attacks.
There is no way people are going to see eye to eye on everything and sometimes on very little, and that is true of most every relationship. There is only one way to deal with this: through agreement to disagree. Otherwise every single little issue devolves downwards into a power struggle and fight which is absurd. So people just stop answering if they know the other poster isn't posting in good faith or else they come with an atittude that matches those they are responding too, if they bother at all.
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 1377
hasn't proved this with his statement "this is our house" remark.
Joined: Jan 2008
Current Posts: 751
Reading comprehension Trav! It was a citizen, Geoff Collins, who said it is their house, not Arotzarena who claimed "this is our house." Please tell me where you got that quote. And, I might add, that if Arotzarena was standing inside the OPOA building then he was in a house built with union dues - not tax dollars. So what is your point?
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 1377
are you just playing dumb today? The event might have been held at union headquarters but it was NOT a union event. It was a city sponsored event that involved mailings sent out by the city's department of neigbhorhood services at which present were city staff members from the Mayor's office. The meeting was billed as I understand for the purpose of meeting and hearing the new police chief, Batt. Where it is held is incidental as you well know. Cards were mailed out to city residents by the city of Oakland, not by the OPOA inviting them to union headquarters. Where the meeting was held was incidental.
Mr. Arotzarena made two mistakes. First, he took a city event and used it for political purposes, trotting out a candidate the union is supporting for mayor, hence policitizing a city meeting which goes against city laws I believe. Secondly, when given the opportunity to clean up the gaffe by presenting the second candidate running for mayor and just making it a balanced introduction of both candidates and not an endorsement session, Mr. Arotzarena didn't allow Jean Quan to leave her cards contrary. This was a very stupid mistake.
Years ago we were instructed when NCPC's were first set up that you could bring political candidates running for office and introduce them, but that you couldn't turn it into an endorsement meeting but that city meetings could be used for educational purposes like candidates and propositions.
What part of this do YOU not understand? This is very basic. If you are the player you claim to be in law enforcement and hence a public emplolyee, then this is standard knowledge about not using city meetings for political purposes by unions regardless of where they are held.
Now, I'm not saying that others have made the same mistake. My point is that Mr. Arotozena did not respect the request of the community's NCPC chair Mr. Vigilante in allowing both candidates equal representation at a community meeting and in turning the event into a political endorsement meeting in the first place. It was a classic "us vs. them" moment in that the police union went ahead and did it's own thing in turned a city meeting organized for the community into a political meeting to push it's own political agenda. What part of this don't YOU comprehend?
And just because there are citizens out there and in this forum willing to turn a blind eye to police wrongdoing, doesn't make it right. The problem with that mindset is that it starts with small matters but soon continues to much bigger ones, all justified under the rubris of the big umbrella theory of "fighting the enemy", a theory which soon becomes remote and lost from the process. And please don't tell me that Dellums isn't viewed as the "enemy" as well as I've read other accounts of this meeting where it was purported that criticisms were made of th Dellums' administration by Mr. Arrotzena at this meeting as well which was also not the purported purpose of the meeting. Please correct me if I'm wrong about this.
And by the way, were you present at this meeting?
Also, I'm not saying that I haven't seen other Oakland politicians not do the same thing at public meetings over the years. But the sentiments that I see expressed in this forum are that this kind of political corruption of civic and democratic processes be cleaned up, not spread by other groups and/or organizations. Why emulate corrupt Oakland politicans and practices?
Joined: Jun 2009
Current Posts: 115
when you preach about how dumb others are, best not to look dumb doing it.
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 1377
how willing you are to put words in my mouth and that of others, to lie and distort what I'm saying and how I'm saying it, and to continue endlessly with your petty personal criticims, picking which seem to be your raison d'etre on this site. You typify and illustrate the definition of a troll beautifully.
Thanks for another offtopic personal critique which doesn't address the substance of what I've stated nor add anything to the discussion or attempt to elicit any clarity or shed any light in this matter.
Believe me, people definitely know what's "dumb". And that is your perpetual nitpicking and petty personal attacks. I feel sorry for you that you are so limited that you are unable to contribute much of substance to either this forum nor this particular thread.
Now, carry on troll, carry on.
Joined: Jun 2009
Current Posts: 115
so you prove my point! and, believe me, people see that about you.
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 1377
But don't make the mistake of thinking what people "see" is always what is there. People see what they wish to see and they find what they wish to find, and they "grind" whatever it is they wish to grind. Some are more honest about it, and others, like yourself, are less honest about it and make believe you come here with some kind of objectivity and for the highest noble purposes and with the greatest of virtue. But people see through this bs of supposedly highminded nobility of cause and the greatest of self-virtue like "truthseeking". You can always rope in a few sycophants and attack artists to troll along with you, but your mistake is in thinking that the small number of posters and represent any kind of majority or mass sentiment. You in your pathetic attempts for credibility continuously swim around in a tiny fishbowl called the Oakland forum with a few like-minded goldfish who are incapable of and disinterested in operating in a higher playing field and political arena. And you know what? It's a very good place for you to swim! LOL!
Joined: Jun 2009
Current Posts: 115
your false attributions (of posters, or as in this case, people quoted in the news - which is how this latest example got started), your false accusations, and your denials + deflections by namecalling.
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 1377
into yet another personal attack. In the course of making a simple mistake and a misquote, you have enlarged this into a big campaign attacking my personal motivations by making your own false accusations by indirectly implying my mistake was deliberate and that I'm engaging in some kind of shady deflection from the issue.
In fact, you're not even interested in addressing the issue. You, in your usual fashion, are merely interested in attacking anyone who believes that police officers should be held accountable not only to the spirit of the law, but to the letter of the law as well. Partiuclarly as they are paid public servants And this holds true for politicans as well.
This all started off by my statements that until there is not an 'US VS. THEM' mindset, that OPD should be under court receivership. I stand by that comment. You obviously don't agree with me. You don't knowledge that this mindset exists in your comments, and you don't see it being a problem.
No, you come here to attack anyone who is not immediately 100% supportive of the police. and that means agreeing with them each and every time, and certainly not engaging in public criticism of any kind. You peg this as being an "enemy", and you attack and engage in nonstop personal attacks of anyone who has the temerity to critize the police in public. It's no secret that public criticism of police officers on police yahoogroups in Oakland was not tolerated for several years. This has only recently changed.
And it's certainly no secret that a very few of you try to run a concerted campaign on this site of attacking and attempts to initmidate others like myself into refraining from making any public criticisms by your consistent attempts to distort what I state, lie about what I state, impeach my motivations, twist what I say and engage in nonstop petty picking and personal attacks and insults in attempt to undermine and discredit me.
I hope others take a lesson but not the lesson you wish to draw. And that is to not be intimidated by forum trolls. Not to bother answering them unless absolutely necessary, and to take care of what you post and to be precise. But don't let the constant and chronic bullying dissuade you from stating your piece or else the TROLLS will win.
There are posters on this site who are deliberately trying to artificially create and sustain and phony notion of "public sentiment" on this site. One or two of them do this with multiple users names creating a false impression of majority sentiment even though there are few posters who post on Oakland matters. Because most who come to this site learn immediately who is on it and don't want to be bothered with the nonstop personal attacks. So, it's just best to state your piece and leave since these trolls live and exist on this forum to pick and to fight And every day they patrol here looking for red meat and a new, unsuspecting, unwary poster who they immediately proceed to dig their little troll cat's paws into.
Joined: Jun 2009
Current Posts: 115
thanks again for proving my points even more! wow!
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 1377
Thanks for illustrating mine as well. LOL! P.S. It hasn't been proven by you that my remarks were falsely attributed as you put it. They may or may not have been made. The reporter did not not cover everything that happened at the meeting. You only have Jiff's word to go on. But he is not stating where he received his information nor ARE YOU ARROYO.
So, how do you know for fact my remarks were falsely atributed as you claim? Because another forum bully stated as much? The city will investigate this and I hope they do because it is a gross violation. The whole report hasn't come out yet. Not everything is known by everyone.
But continue to take your cheap shots, make reckless statements and lie if you choose.
Joined: Jun 2009
Current Posts: 115
oh i see you kept trolling yesterday. just so you know: no, i got my take from google news search result not jif. my google search results showed the same news report already on this site (attached to a different forum thread than this) also got published on many other news sites too. they all say:
"Others saw the dust-up as much ado about nothing.
"It's a nonissue," said Geoff Collins, an Oakland resident and strong supporter of the city's police officers. "It's (Arotzarena's) house. He can do what he wants. This is Oakland politics in a mayoral race. "... Learn to live with it."
the rest here is your name-calling, deflecting, backpedaling, projecting false accusations + false attributions, etc. all that's standard fare from you! you lately claimed i'm the "puppet" of other posters here. but really i've only been a puppet of you + your nonstop sick games.
like i said before, i do hope you get the mental help you need.
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 1377
The story is about Mr. Arotzena's remarks and actions, not mine. The story is about ignoring the city's laws. What Geoff Collins, one citizen is merely his opinion and a quote which you have taken obviously as the definitive answer on the issue. That is your right.
It's mine to disagree, and once again you prove as usual that you have have hard time dealing with disagreement. You also show you will go to any lengths to attack, lie and slander other posters who disagree with you and your positions.
I have made no knowingly false accusations, attributions or anything else knowingly as you cavalierly purport and proclaim. To the contrary, I have read accounts of this meeting from elsewhere and made inquiries of an individual who was present at the meeting yesterday to attempt to ascertain if it was true that Mr. Arotzena made this statement directly to them and they responded to me in the affirmative.
You weren't present yourself either. You don't know what was said by whom to whom and you are just making up your lies out of wholecloth once again, scraping the bottom of the barrel in yet another attempt to DEFLECT the topic and substance of this article onto me in a desperate attempt to whitewash the whole entire affair.
And in the process you show everyone quite clearly that not only do you not believe it's important to keep politics out of city meetings and to allow equal access by all candidates, you show your own arrogance in accepting one individual's opinion that this matter is not important. You also reveal yourself to be a very cynical individual who obviously doesn't consider the democratic process or the issues this article raises to be very important.
Au contraire Arroyo troll, this is a very important issue and it's been a subject of contention that has been raised in the past in other forums and by other individuals when politicians or individuals connected with NCPC's attempt to violate city laws by introducing politics into city affairs or by attempting to garner political endorsements at public meetings.
You are a very backwards and uninformed and ill-informed troll who attempts to make light of this matter. Obviously, you are trying to deflect the issues raised in this article once again onto me per your usual fashion. And you end with the same old tired and worn out attempts at juvenile insults that only a very juvenile and very emotionally immature poster and troll has to keep making in a one last, desperate attempt to whitewash the whole affair.
I conclude any further attempts to try and communicate with you. Because you are obviously not interested in facts or truth. No, your main interest and specialty in this forum is popping up to attack others with whom you disagree. And your cannot handle your emotions nor disagreement in any kind of rational or sane manner.
I caution all other forum posters to view with this troll par excellence has to say with a grain of salt. This poster posts on his own opinions and biases. And this trolls statements are peppered with lies and half truths and nonstop personal attacks and insults.
Joined: Dec 2007
Current Posts: 129
Traveler: Write me at bud_verde@yahoo.com, please, so I can write back with a private note.
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 1377
If you wish to contact me you can do so through the Oakland forum. All you have to do is hit my name and send me a note through the forum.
Joined: Jan 2008
Current Posts: 751
Where did you get the quote that Arotzarena said "this is our house"?
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 1377
You asked me what my point was and I responded in full. Now you are asking a new question. Before you make further demands, why don't you answer my question and give me the same courtesy that I gave you in responding to your initial question? Or, is there something more going on here. Because this no longer seems like a civil exchange, it feels more like an interrogation where unliateral demands are being made.
And the point is irrelevant. Because you yourself are indirectly supporting the position that because it was the union's house they could do as they please ignoring the fact that it was a city meeting. FURTHMORE, union dues are obtained from wages paid with public monies. So indirectly, the citizens have paid for your union hall. But that's a moot point.
If I made a mistake in attributing the statement incorrectly to Mr. ARotzaena instead of Mr. Collins, then I withdraw it and stand corrected. What are you willing to correct, huh Jif?
The rest of my statement holds though. And that's something you are unwilling to address. That union officers and rank and file are made aware of the limits of political activities at public meetings and Mr. Arotzarena abused his position for political purposes. he did so by his own admission stating "there was no malice intended".
Now you tell me Jif, did Mr. Arotzarena also make attacks on the Dellums administration at this meeting? Your silence in response to my question is deafening. And if so, how did this link into the purpose of this meeting if his statements were made in good faith and were YOU in attendance at this meeting?
Who are your sources, eh Jif? And were you in attendance? Please Answer MY QUESTION, Jif.
Joined: Jan 2008
Current Posts: 751
I wasn't at the meeting. I don't know. I did, however, read the article and was able to discern who (allegedly since this is print media) said what based upon what was written in the article. Satisfied?
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 1377
LOL!
Joined: Oct 2009
Current Posts: 27
All of you seem to be unhappy with life, I wonder if any of you would say these things to each others face
Joined: Oct 2009
Current Posts: 27
Have any of you read the book that told the story of councilman Larry Reid bragging to a city employee about a local businessman providing him with asian prostitutes, he even got his brother and some friends hooked up. And the rest of the story is that this local businessman gets city contract money for recycling trash, I say the trash is councilman Reid. The book is Politics Crime Money and Lies, (Can President Obama Clean Up The Dirty Side Of American Politics). They cannot call the author liar, read it!