Oakland records 73rd homicide of the year


bluepeas
bluepeas's picture

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 140
This woman's right. Now that I think about it, why do ppl make so many guns anyway? Were not having a war i n the US. All these guns create war. Another thing, the boxcar the kids broke into in Richmond, why was there a box car full of assault rifles going thru our cities any dahm way? When I found out my son sold one w/ a scope to an adult gun collector I started watching his room. After fighting w/ him & tossing 2 guns in the junk yard I finally got it thru his thick skull, wheeling & dealing guns or drugs will send us straight to hell. It ruins lives & lchildren suffer! I was so glad when that phase was over. My friend went thru the same thing & took the door off the hinges to her son's bedrm. I went over & seen a big door in the hallway & asked her wth?! She said I told that lil [bleep] to stop locking the door. Unfortunately, her son shot an older bully, 20+ rounds, b4 she succeeded getting him thru (ghetto rites-of-passage, men call it). He had just made 18 & now going to trial facing life in prison.  I put this here b/c I know ALOT of mothers also go thru the same thing. It's very hard raising a son (s) alone. The things kids do sometimes can be very embarassing, I know, but u have 2 look pass that & try to get help, even if it means talking about it w/ more-experienced mothers. U can't give up on your children. I also know that fighting w/ them takes alot of energy. It's so tempting to jus throw the towel in & put it in God's hands. It's up to us to instill spiritual knowledge & religion in your children(water the seed)...to nurture them in good things, then keep hammering it in & keep reminding him of the consequences, 7/24 till he can discern right from wrong wisely. Instill in him the saddness & grief his actions can bring upon others & yourself till he feels the pain. Make him feel it. Don't let it go in one ear & right out the other. Minister Keith use to read the news to the kids before allowing them to go to class, where my son attended school. After reading the article he'd explain to them consequences in society & thru God, & other ways 2 deal w/ a bad situation. I kept this up after my son graduated & would sit on the side of his bed in the morn. This way I knew I had his full attention (just a lil advice which may help).  Hopefully by sharing this other mothers will realize they're not alone. Whatever u do DON'T LET YOUR KIDS RUN YOU & don't let them lose their conscious. How can God help anyone w/ out a conscious? Now this mother lost 2 sons, where 2 other mothers (or fathers), may have failed. Nothing beats a failure but a try. Too many parents jus give up & leave their kids to the streets & system, an who has to suffer? their victims, the parents that don't give up, the schools & tax payers     
No votes yet
east_oakland_106
east_oakland_106's picture

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 63
Since oakland has a rep for its homicides. I doing agree with them all. You have str8 up killing then you have  justifiable homicide which is rare in oakland.  This killing was senseless but why did it happen and why was the 1st brother killed?  From 1993 to 2000 i worked ina  Funeral Home in Richmond  and i have seen tis happen so many times brothers killed weeks days or months apart. But its something  more to it then what they are saying. They say the truth comes out. But 1990 a  the 1st one gets killed not  this one. there must be something going on that the family dont no about.  I do give priase to the  homie for his work in oakland against the  mess going on here. I give him praise for stepping out and speaking up. But dayam someone in that house  new something.  You just dont  up and go up in a house and kill some one.  Someone in that house had to let the killer know he was there. funny how you can send a text out and  moments later you get killed.  or the famous "set up" dayam shame how  we are killing each other over  str8 up bull[bleep]. But now that the bet is set oakland will reach 150 this year last year  126  the year before 148. Like i said in  other post FUNERAL HOMES ARE MAKING A KILLING OFF THIS MESS.   Id love to go broke if we stop killing our selves. Now the gamble is on what funeral home will get this young man. Its a dayam shame why we kill and what we do it for. You have down right homicide and then you have justifiable homicide and  that you dont see much of in oakland.  BRUTHAZ GOTTA STOP THE KILLING. YOUNG HOMIE  REST IN PEACE.!
bluepeas
bluepeas's picture

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 140
  east_oakland_106, all the same thoughts crossed my mind. of course there has to be more & usually the more leads the police have the less they say. but the set-up thing is a cold peice to swallow. i now know 5 youngsters & 2 young adults who have been murdered that way. example: one15 yr old was invited to sleep over a friends house. he woke up & found 2 adults standing over him confronting him about a stolen car. someone told one of the adults where he was at & the friend let them in. now u know this male adult has to be a catty coward if he has to wake up another adult & drag him along to confront a dang kid. instead of jus kickin the kid's lil butt they yelled at him then out the clear blue cat shot & killed him right there in the house. the other adult was furious b/c he didnt know his patna was going 2 kill the kid, so now his life is also ruined too. but u c how anything can happen behind of the pettiest things in Oakland now, very sad. it's not surprising that quite a few boys have been set up by girls. this is why i tell boys all the time 2 be very careful who they trust. Girls don't realize they jeopardize their own lives if a situation gets deeper than expected. One turned around & testified on her male co-defendants as her mom instructed her too. Once the d.a was done w/ her OPD came back 3 months later & charged her for the same murder. her 1st offense & she's doing 17 yrs. No words can explain the pain of losing your 'only' son. it's too horrific. but 'both' your only sons & u don't have a clue why? Me & God would have to have a lil talk.
B_Traven
B_Traven's picture

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 9
I'm sorry to hear of anyone murdered, but this family doesn't seem to take responsibility for anything that happens in their lives or their community.  I've read stories of people murdered in Oakland for the most trivial reasons, e.g.,  a lost pair of tweezers, beer accidently spilled on someone's shoes, someone taking the last beer from the refrigerator costing two women their lives, and in this article it's mentioned that a squirt from a watergun ended in murder.  This must be the definition of insanity. I'm no fan of the NRA, but people who resort to insane violence with little or no provocation will find a way to get guns or commit murder in some fashion no matter what laws are passed.  The guns they own now are not registered, and many of them were stolen.  Personal responsibility, proper parenting, and a working set of morals and ethics are a few of the things that seem to be missing in some Oakland residents, and the rest of us are made to suffer for it. Please don't offer me "poverty" as an excuse.  Poverty is relative, and Oakland is truly a paradise compared to many parts of the world (or the U.S., for that matter), though many poorer areas have less crime and higher moral standards.  There is a poverty of the spirit here, and until it is addressed no law can protect us from endemic violence.
avb2000
avb2000's picture

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1
I have been reading the transcriptions of orations made by Clarence Darrow, a famous criminal defense attorney from the early 20th century. I think he would agree with your "poverty of the spirit," but would argue that the spirit is necessarily dampened by poverty in the economic sense. I thought you might find this interesting: In addressing inmates in the Cook County Jail of Illinois in 1902 (the warden had invited him to speak), he said, "The only way in the world to abolish crime and criminals is to abolish the big ones and the little ones togther. Make fair conditions of life. give men a chance to live. Abolish the right of private owership of land, abolish monopoly, make the world partners in productions, partners in the good things of life. Nobody would steal if he could get something of his own some easier way...The only way to cure these conditions is by equality."  
B_Traven
B_Traven's picture

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 9
Thank you for a thoughtful reply, avb2000.  We probably have the same book of Darrow's speeches in our collections, by coincidence.  If you remember though, the prisoners Darrow spoke to at the Cook County Jail were bewildered by his speech and thought he was far too radical! Everyone I know questions what the real problem is out here in the Flatlands, and "poverty of the spirit" is the best answer we have.  It's not economics.  Many of the parents of the victims or perpetrators are homeowners with a comfortable living. It's not education.  An Oakland school teacher in my neighborhood has a son in prison and always picks "Mr. Wrong."  Another neighbor raised two police officers and one contract killer, and he doesn't know why one of his sons went down the wrong path. There's no dearth of churches, if you think religion is the answer.  The largest cluster of them are right in the middle of one of the most crime-ridden areas in Oakland, and I haven't noticed  that more churches made a dent in the homicide rate there. Darrow was a good man, and he thought that stealing was a difficult way to make a living.  Unfortunately, stealing is very easy in Oakland.  Thanks to our corrupt City Hall we have so few police that there is little chance of being caught committing a crime of any magnitude here.  An even bigger problem is Oakland's drug trade.  What incentive to work an honest job can we offer unskilled people who can make $500 a day, tax-free with illegal drugs? I don't have the answer, and I wish I did.  I could cite a dozen factors from teen-age pregnancy to the drop-out rate to drug and alcohol abuse, but again, they're all symptoms of what I call "poverty of the spirit."  I believe in equality with all my heart, but I know that we are all unequal in our ability to cope with society and its demands.  And yes, I know firsthand that economic poverty bruises the heart and the soul, but a lotus still blooms in mud.
eggbert
eggbert's picture

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 180
Hey great idea, blaming people who make guns for murder.  Way to shift responsibility (again) to someone else.  Last time I checked, guns can't grow legs and run to oakland to pull their own trigger. What is it with the ghetto mentality to blame everyone else for your problems?
endtostrife
endtostrife's picture

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 16
egghead er, eggbert no guns do not grow legs but placed in the hands of someone irresponsible without the nessassary skills to resolve a dispute and you will have murder. The enviornment that they live in constructed by those with least interest in their lives and destructed b y those within who have no interest in improving their lives has created a powder keg of violence and dispair. WE have successfully created a perfect storm of violence within every innercity in these united states.  
eggbert
eggbert's picture

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 180
Great, so using your logic, we should not let those same people drive cars or handle sharp implements.  Because if we did they may run someone over or stab them.  If only you could control everyones brains, or wrap them in a snuggly warm blanket of liberalism, then we could all dance with Code Pink in the streets and ride magical unicorns.  
The Trouble I See
The Trouble I See's picture

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 512
IT IS A DAM SHAME!!! OAKLAND IS NOT GEARED FOR AFRICAN AMERICANS TO MAKE ANY KIND OF LIVING(WORKING OR HUSTLING)!!! AND THE TOP DOLLAR MAKING OFFICIALS COULD CARE LESS!!! IT IS NO WAY THIS MAN WANTED TO DO BETTER AND COULD NOT!!! THE CITY IS FUNDING ALL OF THESE PROGRAMS(WHICH MOST OF THEM WOULD ONLY HELP HIM IF HE HAD A RECORD), SPENDING MILLIONS AND NOT ONE OF THEM COULD OFFER THIS MAN ANY ASSISTANTS?! NO WAY HE SHOULD HAVE DIED IN THIS FASHION!!! HE WAS'NT A THUG OR DEALER WILL THIS BE THE ONE THAT BROKE THE CAMELS BACK OR GIVE THE CITY AND OFFICIALS A HEART?!!
endtostrife
endtostrife's picture

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 16
eggbert, No but we  could have been giving them something else like opportunity through time honored methods...... reasonable-effective-stabilization of a community utilizing labor intensive-solutions. ie involving the entire community, businesses, schools, churchs, law enforcement (the crime intervention type.) Probation, Parole etc. and create task forces to deal with problem areas identified as the worse of the worsed. Reaching those at an early enough age to adhere to effective guideance and would result in a behavior shift from where we are now.  Ending innocent encounters like an exchange of  looks ending in gunfire. AS I grew up in this area and have witness the lack of applied rules (street and otherwise) to our youths lives. I can't help but know that somehow that same person who has the pride in himself to show respect to a real O.G. when their paths crossed.  As I was  once taught... " They respect yo' getdown " can be taught to react differently to life's challenges. This isn't a Oakland problem this is an American problem and it's just going to get worst and involve more and more both in terms of victims and doers of wrong.   No warm blanket,... Code Pink or riding magical unicorns.... Just a shift in the ways we treat the worst off in our society will do.   
jif
jif's picture

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 426
There is one critical piece missing from your list of things to do and who should do them:  the citizens who are creating this mess.  If asked to get on board with a program that would really work, I believe most would abandon it within a day or two.  I am not talking about blowing sunshine up your arse type programs being run by Too Short, I am talking about a total change in your lifestyle program a la the military.  A program where everyone in the house is made first to clean that house and remain responsible for that cleanliness, wake up and eat a decent breakfast, pack a lunch, mom/dad go to work and kids go to school, homework completed before any fun time, conversations between child and parent where the parent is in charge, books are read for pleasure and the TV is not on all day, dinner as a family and in to bed early so the whole thing can start over the next day.  This is the foundation for success - not a tired old rapper who made his millions singing about slinging dope and calling women b's and ho's.
eggbert
eggbert's picture

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 180
nah, i don't agree with you.  People in the ghetto are generally lazy and have zero skills as parents and they pass that down to their children, etc, etc.  All the help in the world is available to people who are downtrodden.  they just have to be willing to treat it as a hand-up, rather than a hand-out.  The state cannot be the parents of savages who are unwilling to help themselves.  Get a room full of immigrants from select countries and place them in the ghetto and what happens?  They may live amongst the savages for a few years but eventually their children will be college graduates and have some high paying job.  That same opportunity is available to the criminal minded, get rich quick, animals that have inhabited parts of oakland for over 100 years and yet they don't take advantage of it.  
east_oakland_106
east_oakland_106's picture

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 63
nah, i don't agree with you.  People in the ghetto are generally lazy and have zero skills as parents and they pass that down to their children, etc, etc.  All the help in the world is available to people who are downtrodden.  they just have to be willing to treat it as a hand-up, rather than a hand-out.  The state cannot be the parents of savages who are unwilling to help themselves.    i do not agree with this at all egghead. this problem is  in every state of the U.S. DC Detriot New Orleans its all over the U.S. Every race have there own problem blacks kill each other  Whites like to kill there whole family. Look at the [bleep] who killed his 2 kids and wife then himself in tilden park last year. And there are skilled people in the ghetto and most are not lazy at all its just time and time again you get turned down for a low paying [bleep] job so they do the next thing  sell dope. You know i bet that for ever App that they turned in and get $100.00 for it i bet they would not be in the ghetto because a lot of folks want to give jobs to there families close friends ect. i know for a fact that i personally looked in to jobs for someone with THE SKILL AND HE IS FROM THE GHETTO  THEY ave the job to some white dude that did not no  a dayam thing [bleep] up all the time so i got  rid of his [bleep].  and there are whites in the ghetto its called trailer trash the ones that live in them dayam mobile homes the ones that live in them parks them Vets that dont get [bleep] they all down in the hood so its not just a black thing in the ghetto so open up your eyes and take a look because its [bleep] up for you to say some [bleep] like this.  just as many blacks in the ghetto its as many trailer park trash in the parks  
Traveler
Traveler's picture

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 726
Endostrife, I don't believe we can mentor, change or cure kids who have no parents or their parents are absentee, neglectful, drug addicts and/or alcoholics and welfare-dependent mentalities.  Sometimes a few amazing individual youth manage to escape, but not the vast majority.  I agree with you that those who created all the section 8 housing and housing authority projects and allow criminals to infest them are not very interested in cleaning up the mess they created.  In fact, they are for turning people out into the streets with no provisions for jobs or liveihoods.  And worse, they are not interested in changing the nature of the welfare systems they have created which continue the problem.  We need either a return to New Deal employment type of programs or to advance the New Green Deal programs which will benefit all members of society.  Some see this as make-work programs who don't know that vast numbers of US citizens, Democrats and Republicans alike were unemployed during the l930's and l940's and survived through the Public Works Programs of the Roosevelt Administration.  Also, we need to stop being the enablers--setting up unmarried teenage girls in Housing Authority. This has become acceptable to society. No official still in Oakland is addressing the root of the problem.  The "liberal" mentality is that of mentoring which has been shown after 2 decades to be a total failure.  It's impossible to "mentor" a child 24 hours a day.  Only parents can parent.  There has been little emphasis on rehab with jobs.  Until this time, children won't see the working parent "model" in the home and the pattern will continue.  At least we could push more birth control.  Abortions seem anathema to those who benefit in the foster child industry; i.e., namely the grandparents.  So, it is one sick, ghettoized welfare-dependent culture.  Why aren't more middle class blacks addressing the need for public service programs?  How come they support the poverty model, too, and want to be employed in the nonprofits serving the children all the time rather than employing the parents?  It's not just Oakland's ghetto culture that is SICK, SICK, SICK, but it's white paternalistic (i.e., racist) political culture as well that doesn't want to see gainfully employed parents and wants to put all the drug addicts and alcoholics on SSI.  I know this first hand from experience.
endtostrife
endtostrife's picture

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 16
I personally know of agencies hiring unqualified individuals for positions while allowing much more qualified persons to go unhired. And both those hired and turned away were minorities. I figured that the agency felt it was better for them to hire someone that could be easily minipulated than to have a competent and confident person to contend with. So nothing suprises me about the issues of race and politics as well as those that blindly eat what is placed in front of them to digest.  So many of our inner city poor don't even have a chance by the time their old enough to to learn behavior patterns that lead to success because it's taken away from them by the world that they see and experience around them. Without being extracted from this environment and given a chance to experience a sane and nurturing lifestyle, there is little hope that they will be one of the few that will able to resist and escape proverty of the mind.  and for eggbert's comments I was through with it before you even knew what to do with it. Evil is what evil does and a day of reconing will be had by all.
SPOOKY SINNER
SPOOKY SINNER's picture

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 4
THEY BLEW THEIR CHANCE WITH THE HYPHY MOVEMENT AND NOW THEY ARE TRYING TO COMPENSATE BY BECOMING MURDER CAPTOL OF THE WORLD!!!!!!
reality616
reality616's picture

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 13
Let me first offer my condolences to the Hall family.  When situations like this happen people always talk about responsibility and don’t get me wrong I’m all for responsibility, but I am for responsibility and holding those accountable at every facet of the problem from the gun manufactures, police, gun shop owners, private gun owners, and lastly the individuals who are actually committing the crimes because like Mona Hall implied, the mother of Bobby Hall Oakland’s 73 homicide victim, we are all responsible. The problem with responsibility is that people use it like a weapon as a way to justify society’s apathy towards the communities most affected. People talk about responsibility but the truth is these kids out here in these ghettos aren’t going on the internet and ordering “gun building kits” from Germany; they aren’t in their parent’s basement welding steel in order to build their own guns, no, they’re getting these guns from manufactures, Shops, and gun shows, and we know this because honestly when’s the last time your herd of a major gun heist, you haven’t, these guns aren’t being stolen.  When a police officer is caught selling guns or drugs both while on or off duty they usually spend the bare minimum jail term in exchange for their alleged cooperation in bringing down other bad cops, when a gun shop owner is found to have sold guns to felons or not following the proper procedures in general they’ re fined just a nominal amount of money, and let’s not get started on the gun manufacturers  who have an obligation to ensure that their product makes it to its official and legal destinations have all but been immunized from responsibility when their products do in fact make it into the wrongs hands sometimes through their own negligence, tell me where is the responsibility. Don’t get me wrong I’m not excusing what the criminal element is doing, but when we talk about responsibility to second what was already mentioned by fellow commentator “avb2000” we as a society have to hold everyone involved accountable from the top down. Lastly I would like to give the Oakland Tribune credit for running this story and putting it on the front page, no less. The front page is valuable real-estate for news papers and it puts the story right in your face, I think the Tribune also deserves credit for displaying a picture because it made the victim seem more real and not just another name floating around in the ether. When I got the paper at 5 am and saw this story it made me uncomfortable, coming off of a fantastic weekend at the U.S youth games which were hosted by Oakland this year, to come home and find out that this young seemingly innocent man had been murdered took some of my joy away, and that’s exactly what a story like this should do to a decent person. There shouldn’t be a lot of joy as long as kids ( or young adults) continue to get murdered in our front and backyards and as far as I am concerned the Tribune should run a story like this picture and all for all future murder victims
B_Traven
B_Traven's picture

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 9
I'm for accountability and responsibility at every level.  That said, many of the problems we see in Oakland begin in the home.  It's the first place we learn right from wrong, see empathy in practice (or not), learn compassion, the concept of fair play and working with others, just to name a few basic concepts of civilized society.  The attitudes learned at home remain with a child forever and in part, determine the role that child will play in the world. I and most of my friends grew up in households with guns, but we were taught to shoot responsibly as young children.  Guns were all around us twenty-four hours a day, but we were taught gun safety from earliest childhood, to always assume a gun was loaded, and never to touch a gun without parental permission.  We were taught the consequences of carelessness, and no one I know has grown up to harm another person or pick up a gun in anger.   One friend has won a number of awards in competition riflery, and several volunteer to teach gun safety. My point is one that is made over and over in these forums.  It isn't the gun's fault.  It's the fool who pulls the trigger who was raised without morals or ethics and has no impulse control.  You cannot eliminate guns in a country with open borders, and banning guns will fail just as Prohibition failed.  If there is any hope at all for this society it lies, in part, in better parenting and early childhood intervention.  It's easily said and very hard to accomplish.
Traveler
Traveler's picture

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 726
Reality, I agree with what you have written and B Traven too.  But Let's face it.  The welfare the way it has been structured has destroyed the black family parenting structure for those fallen victim to it as Sen. Daniel Moynihan warned in the l960's but nobody paid attention.  And Those who own the corporations saw fit to take black people out of the labor market and keep them on welfare because they had been militant union members during earlier union organizing periods.  In my opinion, the only way forward is for a movement for full employment--for everyone who is unemployed and the unemployment rate is steadily rising now.  This means black and white people.  The problem is though, how can you restore the work ethic in those where it is missing?  It's more than just a parenting problem--there are a whole bunch of values that are simply missing in several generations.  Quite frankly, I don't think much will change  until we have a total political sea change in this country that presses for a national employment program and to end and cure the present evil welfare system and that also provides for rehabilitation and childcare.  The evil in our society lies in the mentality of perpetual war that has been created by the neocons.  We are supporting the wrong industries and the wrong federal priorities.  I don't believe you can separate these problems from Oakland.  You can talk until you're blue in the face about parenting, and the youth.  But until there are more opportunities, the ghetto will prevail. Today's youth don't have access to many of the blue collar jobs that once existed.  And even those that do, they bring the ghetto culture with them.  Yes, middle class black people might be more qualified than many white people, but they are a handful compared to the violent thousands in Oakland of youth for whom there is no salvation under the present political mindset in our country.  America now has the largest number of incarcerated individuals in the world, 7 times France I believe, and still people don't get that this is not a solution to what are basically economic problems.  My point is you can scream racism and things like gentrification until the cows come home, but they miss the point and don't address the larger issues.  And as for the people who think it's a degradation of black culture like "Sinner", well, sinner epitomizes the "white" Negroes in our society who are politically and culturally backwards themselves, absorbed in a hedonistic, consumer culture and don't realize their own degradation and loss of humanity themselves.   Although they don't realize it and view themselves as far more advanced, they are only a few degrees away from the lost ghettoized youth in this town because the same system that has damned the youth to hell is damning them as political and social infrastructure of our society overall breaks down.
Traveler
Traveler's picture

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 726
I'm interesting in learning where the information about a "boxcar going through Richmond full of assault rifles" came from.  Is this public or private knowledge?  How would anyone know if a particular boxcar even contained assault rifles?  Who would be privy to this knowledge?  Has it been reported in the press or to the police?  Was a theft report made out to the Richmond Police?  Who is the train company involved?  Southern Pacific or whom?  You would think, given all the articles on gun control lately, that this story would be first page headlines or breaking news.  Has it been? 

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate the change.