Posted on Wednesday, 11/19/2008 - 9:27 p.m. PST — by DrDaddio
All of this is far too serious for Juvenile Court and misdemeanors. Here is yet another extremely serious case and criminal actions that demand felony charges and trial as something other than being a minor. Similarly, the child's parents also deserve some consequences. Can our legislators write some modifications to existing laws that make some crimes automatically be Adult ones.... maybe an age from 12 to 17 (for example) having different sentencing guidelines that give both Judge and Jury considerable discretion? Hopefully also, the owner of the weapon will be charged for unsafe storage or whatever existing law applies, as well as be fined enough to cover some of the costs of the entire chain of events. Where was the trigger lock or safe storage? Where did the weapon come from? the gun isn't the criminal here. Now before you folks go making assumptions and/or trying to put your off-topic or other unrelated spin on the article.... I wrote my letter to legislators. Did you write yours with your POSITIVE input or will you just comment on this board? I think both activities take about the same amount of time. I only write this last part so maybe some will look at themselves before they presume to prematurely add "facts" that are not apparent or to "judge" others by assumption.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Current Posts: 601
Parents have civil liability involving a child who is under the age of 18 and commits a criminal act. They will get the bill. Unless one of the parents was the owner of the weapon in question, there probably won't be a criminal charge against either of them. A minor can be charged as an adult, but since no one was hurt or killed that may be unlikely.
Who is the owner of the weapon?
It was probably an illegal firearm. (Unregistered or stolen) Legal gun owners all know that the serial number of their weapon is attached to their SSN at the DOJ and FBI, and the bullet itself can be matched by ballistic analysis. Therefore, those of us who own firearms legally secure our weapons responsibly, because we have civil and criminal liability if the weapon is lost or stolen and used in a crime. The vast majority of guns that fall into the wrong hands belong to this category, with a few exceptions of course.
Joined: Jun 2008
Current Posts: 290
The parents will get a bill? Since they are most likely on SSI, the tax payers will end up paying for it.
I like how an official justified the carrying of weapons to school due to fear. That's great. yet another example of refusing to place blame on a kid who should have known better. Let's blame everything else, other than the culprit.
I'd work 10 jobs to have my kids go to private school, rather than Oakland's C rap public school system.
Joined: Jan 2008
Current Posts: 6
One out of two responses and it shows as evidence as to how insidious, tenacious and counter-productive assumptions and generalizations can be. Regarding the tone of this post: Some people and groups have no idea how badly they have been infected with racial preoccupation of differences and "teach" their illness to many around them. You can't blame an entire society's (country's) illness on just one of the ethnic groups who are citizens here. No, you didn't write it outright but the implications were clear.
Regarding facts: FYI, SSI is Social Security Income and IF the parents have it, then they earned it and does not come out of the taxpayer's pockets. Also fact: Approximately 70% of the American people on Welfare assistance are Caucasian.
Now Sir, your reading comprehension neeeds some work, too. I do not read that any official justified the acts. I read the questioning attempt at illustrating motive --- "and that some might carry a weapon out of fear." Please notice the words "MIGHT carry" and try not to give the statement meaning you intend rather than what the speaker intended. None of us can assume motive. Your blame sentence that follows therefore makes no logical sense because the assumption and misrepresentation is false.
Your post illustrates my own last original paragraph perfectly. Thank you.
As a final note, I do hope you are able to work enough jobs to send your children (kids are young goats) to private school. I would hope that they are very well motivated to take advantge of the diverse learning experience that they might not get at home. When more Americans of all "races" figure out that "race" is actually unimportant, then maybe we can begin to be the greater(est) nation we currently claim to be.
Joined: Jun 2008
Current Posts: 290
Let's be clear, spinmaster, Daddio. You can work at Manpower for a few months, be declared "disabled" and get SSI. So it's hardly earned. In fact, it is the modern version of the dole.
You seem preoccupied with race. Thanks for reading into my post and telling me what I really meant. You're no doctor, but a psychic.
Joined: Jan 2008
Current Posts: 6
Eggbert, for your enlightenment:
There are actually different sets of criteria when it comes to applying for and establishing eligibility for SSA disability.
The first criteria have to do with whether or not a claimant's monthly gross earned income is under a certain threshold amount. Additionally, if a claimant is pursuing ssi disability (SSD) benefits, their total countable assets must (for an individual) not exceed $2000.00. If a claimant does not meet these "screening" criteria, an application may still be taken but the claimant will simply be given a technical denial. A technical denial, of course, happens quite quickly and without an evaluation of a claimant's medical records.
The second set of criteria pertaining to qualifications for SSA disability pertain to the process itself. The disability system operated by the social security administration utilizes a sequential evaluation process: is the claimant no longer working (or working but yet earning less than a certain threshold amount each month); does the claimant have an impairment; is the impairment considered severe; does the impairment prevent the claimant from returning to past work; does the impairment prevent the claimant from engaging in other work?
Essentially, if it can be shown that a claimant is incapable of doing their past work, or certain other work (based on age, education, medical restrictions, and transferrable job skills), then a claimant will meet all the necessary qualifications for receiving disability benefits.
http://www.ssa.gov/disability/professionals/bluebook/
So, what do you think about the subject of my ORIGINAL post? Or the content of the article for that matter????
Joined: Jun 2008
Current Posts: 692
Unfortunately true. People with jobs that pay into social security will qualify for SS after forty quarters. Anyone can ask for SSI assistance.
Joined: Apr 2009
Current Posts: 3
Well said that was a good post;
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Joined: Jan 2008
Current Posts: 751
Let us be very clear on why it is that this whole article evinces the complete chaos that is Oakland. We can haggle over what was meant by "might", but the reality is that other students were aware of the gun being in the room and they said nothing. Why? In typical fashion, some answered with a shrug of the shoulders (a vacant look of support for the thug probably attended the shrug.) Others were quoting the ghetto drug culture's motto "snitches get stitches." Ask those same children to quote Shakespeare and you will get silence. I bet that if we went into the homes of the parents yelling and screaming about this travesty we would find any number of violent movies on DVD that glorify gangs, drugs, money and hos. All cleverly set to the soundtrack of some asocial rapper who talks about dying young in a blaze of glory and f the police. As for SSI and who gets it, please Daddio! My brother worked off and on for 15 years. He fried his brains on drugs and he has been on SSI longer than he ever worked or, as you seem to think, paid into the system.
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 15
Why do you allocate so much of your time criticizing what America has created? These issues in the “ghetto” are what poverty breeds…Have you ever tried to focus on an empty stomach? Or have you ever tried to concentrate with people fighting in the next room? It’s been proven, you let a person get hungry enough, and they will eat each other. Given any situation, we don’t know what we would or is capable of doing. So don’t you think all this chaos in Oakland is in the divine make-up of a failed system? So why blame the players in the game? Focus your attention and energy on the Government and policy makers. Yes, I agree most homes that foster violence, produce children that aren’t against it, because it is apart of their lives. So who do we blame? Their parents’ parents and so on…it’s a cycle of learned behavior. While working at a recreation center in Oakland, I met children that had never been outside of their city. I was amazed to learn that they had never explored the beauty of the Rose Garden in Berkeley or set on a cable car in San Francisco. With such limited exposure, what do you think are the long term consequences? They turn to what is familiar to them, all that they know…Now I’m not suggesting that we are to make excuses for the behavior of these children that come from broken homes and then turn to a life of violence. I mean many successful people came from broken homes. All I’m asking is that you seek to understand before you place judgment go to one of these recreation centers and volunteer.
Ø And since you know you cannot see yourself,
so well as by reflection, I, your glass,
will modestly discover to yourself,
that of yourself which you yet know not of.
Ø A wretched soul, bruised with adversity,
We bid be quiet when we hear it cry;
But were we burdened with like weight of pain,
As much or more we should ourselves complain.
Joined: Jan 2008
Current Posts: 6
Facts are stubborn things to pin down for some. You folks are confusing SSD (the proper acronym is DDS) and that administration is an entirely separate division of SSA. It is not strictly SSI as so many mistakenly believe it is, although one could assume that SSI generally means Social Security Income for many.
Where in the article did you read the quote that you allege? Where did you see the shrug of the shoulders?
" There is nothing more dangerous than to build a society, with a large segment of people in that society, who feel that they have no stake in it; who feel that they have nothing to lose. People who have a stake in their society, protect that society, but when they don't have it, they unconsciously want to destroy it."
" Violence as a way of achieving racial justice is both impractical and immoral. It is impractical because it is a descending spiral ending in destruction for all. It is immoral because it seeks to humiliate the opponent rather than win his understanding; it seeks to annihilate rather than to convert. Violence is immoral because it thrives on hatred rather than love."
"One cannot hold another down in the ditch without staying down in the ditch with him."
Now, who wants to comment on my original premise that the crimes deserve harsher charges and consequences than misdemeanor juvenile ones?????
Joined: Jan 2008
Current Posts: 751
I read this: "When I asked them, 'Why didn't you tell someone that someone had a gun?' they shrugged their shoulders!'" she said."
Did you read a different article? The whole thing is moot since a new article today reports that the little thug was part of a ring of little thugs who were out robbing folks in the town. A felony. One of them has already gotten the harsh punishment of probation and an ankle bracelet. For a felony. We can rest easy knowing that he has learned his lesson and will reform. The juvenile justice system, if you can call it that, is a joke and no amount of letter writing will change it. There are too many people invested in the notion that rehabilitation can occur despite the fact that the juvenile criminals are being sent back to the homes that created them. I would prefer much more draconian measures including sterilization of the women who create these freaks or removal of the incentive (welfare/WIC/section 8/etc) for any girl who produces more than one child for whom she can not provide.
Joined: Jan 2008
Current Posts: 6
Hurriedly - Yes, you are absolutely right about that sentence being there. I had forgotten after time and did not re-read since I had Neighborhood Watch and school volunteering duties to attend to. Real-time keeps us all pretty busy. Thank you.
And yes, I saw the article that linked this character to a group of incorrigables (where's my spell check?) and other crimes. Almost unfortunately, sterilization of both sexes is not an option since the legal challenges would prevail. And yes, people have tried to consider removing some from assistance programs after a certain number threshhold of children that the parent(s) can't support. The current philosophy of some who legislate such rules is that the assistance is allegely for the innocent child, so removing support (ADC and others) punishes/withholds humanitarian aid for the child.
I propose that part of the entire problem is that there are too many adults who have never learned to be good parents because they themselves had parents who had no clue. Yes, we could try to blame some of this on the Spock philosophy but not all of it. Yes, beating children is wrong but helping teach them to value and enjoy education and how to get it, spanking them or punishing them reasonably, consistently, from the early years usually makes for more balanced individuals in that age group from 10 upwards. No I don't have all the answers nor am I right all the time for sure. Thanks again to all who have posted their thoughts.
Joined: Jan 2008
Current Posts: 751
I agree with what you have said here. The sterilization is just a pipe dream.
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 1379
"Snitches Get Snitches" if one of the key problems identified in this Story. And one solution that has been proposed is setting up a hotline to report safety problems AT THE SCHOOL.
A second theme the article discusses is SAFETY PROBLEMS ON THE WAY TO SCHOOL. My question is will the safety hotline address those problems too? If the parent is scared, the child is scared. If the prarents don't report problems in the neigbhorhood, why will they report problems in the school?
OBVIOUSLY they need metal detectors. OBVIOUSLY they need to check people's backpacks.
OBVIOUSLY something far more serious is needed. When will the black churches congregations go out on a Sunday together en masses to all the residents of neigborhoods where these problems are occcuring and ask people to turn in their guns? When will they go and ask every parent to become part of the schools PTA?
This is a sad sad situation for children in Oakland to grow up in. But the only way things are going to change is if people put aside their quest for materialism and status and stop looking to government to resolve the issues of their communities.
It's easy to target so-called RACIST white people. But what's much much harder is to committ giving one to two hours a week working together with a group of people to systematically stop violence. Mentoring, that's easy. But real community organizing means meetings, discussions, work, writing letters, lobbying, fliering, and going door to door is harder. That requires REAL SACRIFICE, something nobody is prepared to make.
We have lost the political culture in our society that was once at the heart of those who wrote our constitution and the Bill of Rights. AT that time 3/4 of the American people voted and read newspapers daily. Now people think they are actually political if they type on their computers.
Obama's election was an OPENING and AN OPENING ONLY. It was an opening for people to do the type of hard work that needs to be done in our society. It means that this work will be more respected.
Obama will not be delivering any kind of automatic change any more than Ron Dellums can. It lies on the backs of those who love and care about their own people.
And if you love and care about your own people, don't waste your time responding too taunts and insults, go to this school and offer your help to the prinicpal. Ask how your church or community or neighborhood can help support this school and these children.
Is there a neigbhorhood crime prevention council? Who is in it and what are they doing? Who are the problems in the neighborhood and how can these people be dealt with? Do they need drug rehabilitation? Job training? Or are they incorriigibles who need prison? If so, contact the City Attorney's office that has hired prosecutors to deal with quality of life issues in neighborhoods.Organize a meeting and invite public officials.
Nobody is going to love your own people but you. But until people are willing to make the personal sacrifices for change that are needed to bring our society forward, the violence will continue.
Joined: Jun 2008
Current Posts: 290
I believe I did offer my opinion on this article. The Oakland school system is no more than a gladiator school. I would never allow my kids (a young person ; especially : child —often used as a generalized reference to one especially younger or less experienced <the kid on the pro golf tour><poor kid>\ˈki-dish\ adjective) to attend.
You may have been incorrect about all the definitions of the word "kid," but you are right on the money about a harsher sentence for this juvenile offender.
Joined: Aug 2008
Current Posts: 13
Hey genius,
Install metal detectors and provide "pat-downs" at entrances to schools.
Yeah, I already know. You don't have the dough. Bubba, you'll have it when someone is shot dead and the lawsuits come your way. Try being responsible for the children in your care or get another job.
Who knows? The life you save could be your own.
SOLVED!
Joined: May 2009
Current Posts: 1
I like how an official justified the carrying of weapons to school due to fear. That's great. yet another example of refusing to place blame on a kid who should have known better. Let's blame everything else, other than the culprit.
Who is the owner of the weapon?
It was probably an illegal firearm. (Unregistered or stolen) Legal gun owners all know that the serial number of their weapon is attached to their SSN at the DOJ and FBI, and the bullet itself can be matched by ballistic analysis. Therefore, those of us who own firearms legally secure our weapons responsibly, because we have civil and criminal liability if the weapon is lost or stolen and used in a crime. The vast majority of guns that fall into the wrong hands belong to this category, with a few exceptions of course.
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