Posted on Wednesday, 6/10/2009 - 8:09 p.m. PDT — by Earthgranny
Dangerous dogs have to wear a muzzle in public. This mangy cur Weaver should get neutered at the local animal shelter, He's a snarling menace, LOck him up in the same kennel as von Brunn.
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Joined: Apr 2008
Current Posts: 56
While I can’t support violence especially violence in which someone will lose their life, I think people are tired of police officers and the abuse of their powers. Let’s get real while the Johannes Mehserle/Oscar Grant situation is big hear in the Bay Area there are officers across this country currently charged with murder, attempted murder, sexual assault, sexual battery, sodomy ( check out New York), and DUI’s which result in the death of bystanders ( check out Chicago). Look at the overwhelming support Ryan Moats received after he was denied the opportunity to see his dying mother in law because of some cop with a bad disposition. As more of these situations come out where it seems as if officers are lacking in simple common sense , police officers will continue to lose sympathy from the public. As more of these situations happen the less likely officers will be able to use the stress of their position or social woe’s as a justification for their mistakes.
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 50
I think that people are tired of CRIMINAL THUGS and their abuse of the citizens of every major US city. The Bart shooting is big news ( and it IS tragic no doubt! ) because FINALLY someone OTHER THAN....CRIMINAL THUGS were responsible for a fatal shooting that appears to be unjustified....Lets consider the alternative, shall we...?? HOW bout we let DA HOMIES patrol and police our streets huh? Nuff Said!! Fact of the matter is, some folk are in such denial about the blantant lack-of-regard for life exibited by Oakland "Yuffs " that for them, the BART shooting was a god-send...It has all the makings(race) of a tragedy that would OUTSHINE the usual re-run of (black-on-black, black-on-cops,black-on-state senators,black-on-merchants,black-on-anybody crime we've grown accustomed to...IF Mr. WEAVER were truly anguished about crimes perpetrated by the MAN or pigs as it were, against the people(blacks in particular) then he would do well to address the most efficient and effective killers and destroyer of black life, families,neighborhoods and future and that MAN is the black MAN.....As more of THESE situations happen in the year 2009 its less likely that individuals will be able to use post-traumaic stress disorder associated with ancestrial indentured servitude to justify the total destruction of a once great, proud, strong and respected people....May God bless Oscar Grants family as well as those who would use this terrible tragedy as an opportunity to be wreckless...
Joined: Nov 2008
Current Posts: 346
I have to agree to a point. It is the black population that has lost our sympathy - and although the reputation of police may be tarnished, the rest of us are still grateful for their presence. Let's face it - according to OPD reports (some of which rely on witnesses and are still unsolved), 99 of the 124 murders in Oakland in 2008 involved a black perpetrator and a black victim. And, blacks are named as one party in 7 of the other murders. With figures like this, the other 70+% of us non-blacks aren't going to be turning our backs on the police any time soon.
EDIT: I should state that when the police get information from black witnesses to the murder of a black person, if race is not identified by the witness, they assume a black perpetrator. This is reasonable, I think, because if the perpetrator were white, there would be YouTube videos and a whole lot of snitchin' going on. I would say the same would be true of any murder that involved a murderer of a different race from the victim.
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 50
The "silent majority of Blacks"(and I am a 40yr old black male who resides in East Oakland)support Law Enforcement over the "Street Garbage"....Unfortunately, the loud-mouthed and boisterous minority of Black criminals/criminal sympathizers would have the public believe otherswise...!! I am critical of BLACK crime precisely because BLACK CRIME is what is fueling anti-Blank sentiment, not BLACK SKIN..It is important that Black folks accept and understand this for 2 significant reasons....#1- So that more black children will be raised with a moral compass, respect, honor and integrity..#2 So that our respect as a people in the community, state and nation can be restored..
This notion that Whites Bigots are the only group that blacks have fallen "out of favor" with, is a myth...The blatant disregard for respect and order by black youth, in particular has soured even the most open-minided and compassionate folks of all races including BLACKS...RESEVOIR MAN is not alone in his feelings...It becomes increasingly difficult to judge "by the content of character" when CHARACTER keeps making a "no show"
Joined: Jan 2009
Current Posts: 23
You're ranting like a demented fool in dire need of medicine to control your divisive, anti-social behavior. Perhaps the old fool that staggered to the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum the other day might agree with your hateful statements but the majority of Americans reject them with disgust.
Evil and crime linger in the hearts of men. Crime and violence are not restricted to a group of people or places - they linger in the heart. I encourage you to delve into the Bible and seek medical attention before you harm not only yourself but the lives of "unassuming", innocent people.
Joined: Jan 2009
Current Posts: 23
"The Department of Homeland Security study says the election of America's first black president and the economic slump has helped racist groups recruit.
The report says that high unemployment figures and home foreclosures have created a climate similar to the early 1990s when white supremacists saw a growth period.
That resurgence was stifled in 1995 after an FBI crackdown on extreme right groups following the Oklahoma City bombings carried out by Timothy McVeigh.
Some extreme right websites reported a surge in membership immediately after Barack Obama's election.
The Homeland Security study says the threat posed by what it calls "lone wolves" and "small terrorist cells" is more pronounced that in previous years."
Joined: Apr 2009
Current Posts: 306
Unassuming puts forth an interesting scenario: imagine if all the police were gone, and the streets were prowled by the criminals! And then the vigilantes, the anarchists, the Wild West! As human beings, we care about all who share this world with us, the families of victims and of criminals, who also have a cross to bear. The suffering of others hurts us, too. To deliberatly go out to kill anyone is an evil act. I feel outrage at evil, from wherever it comes.
Joined: May 2009
Current Posts: 424
Way back, right before Mehserle got formally charged, I saw 2 local TV news broadcasts include some footage of at least 2 different local protestors at the Alameda County Courthouse give (on camera) their terrorist threats about retaliation violence they'd contribute to, if they don't get the trial outcomes they want. The implied targets of their violence were officials in the case, and, random people in society.
I never heard anything about any charges ever being brought against them. ...Go figure.
Joined: Apr 2008
Current Posts: 56
Where is all of this black/white stuff coming from, I didn’t mention race nor did the article. In fact the case I mention where New York cops are currently on trial ,are on trial for sodomizing a white Italian named Michael Mineo, so the idea that blacks and Latino’s are the only ones who are victims of police misconduct hence the only ones complaining about misconduct is simply not true.
If we are going to talk about race, then let’s talk about it in real terms. To be honest I’m a young black man born and raised in Oakland, I did everything I was supposed to do, I graduated High School, graduated college, got a good job, and am currently perusing a master’s degree (a little behind the ball) and my black male friends and I well know that we can’t pack into a BMW (or any luxury car for that matter) and go about our business without being stopped by the police. What always amazes me is that for everyone’s grand standing about what black people should do, no one ever address the issues that the blacks in the middle to upper middle class face. I mean it may upset a few people but in my honest opinion I have more to fear from a cop making assumptions then I do over some ghetto nonsense (I don’t make that comment to be disparaging towards people with economic hardships)
People simply don’t recognize the facts. Many of the people (black, since we’re talking race) who have been the victims of police brutality have not been the [bleep]s or the drug dealers (although if they were it still wouldn’t make it right), no the victims have been the college student, the pastor, the doctor, the elderly, the mentally ill, and the young. There was recently an article released which chronicled traffic stops across the country and surprisingly (at least to some) the report found that your were likely to be stopped if you were an African American in a luxury car i.e. BMW, Mercedes, Audi etc. then you were if you were an African American in a ghetto fabulous ride (the article didn’t say ghetto fabulous) i.e. oversized rims, and blazing sound systems.
Let’s take it a step further. I like the older generations but there is a lot of denial on the part of unassuming who is 40 and those who are older. For all of the previous generations’ proclamations and declarations they birthed the current generation and all of their faults. The # 2 cause of death of young black males circa 1965 and before was gun violence and that violence was perpetrated by other black’s and that was a time before crack cocaine, before rap music or the more violent gangsta rap music, before the gang violence between the crips and the bloods tore a community apart (although there was gang violence developing in Chicago), and before the “single parent household” became the issue that it is today. African Americans kill me when they say “What would Martin Luther King Jr. have to say about all of this” the truth is these things were happening in his time and he had little to say about it specifically (he was opposed to violence and gave many speeches about that).
Another fact; many crimes in this country are homogeneous meaning blacks commit crimes against blacks, Latino’s commit crimes against Latino’s, White’s commit crimes against White’s, and Asians commit crimes against Asians. Most people who are murdered are murdered by someone they knew or had some type of acquaintance, so by extension black men are causing the death of black men, white men are causing the death of white men etc.
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 50
Simply put(and I respect your achievments and response)....While I agree with the homogenous nature of crime one must acknowledge that SOCIETY FEELS the "STING" of BLACK crime and unruly behavior in a way that is unrivaled by the other 2 major groups despite our inferior numbers...Our very presence in certain venues of daily life is becoming an appetizer to a main course call "trouble"... You can sense it on public transit, in the movie theatre, at the concert, at the mall,at the club,in the grocery store.....The LOUD voices,profanity,vulgarity,aggressiveness and general lack of respect for anyone coupled with the apathetic and antagonist responses to even the slightness criticism thereof make US a very challenging group to rub shoulders with.....This is just the behavioral side of a much more significant and destructive criminal bubble. We have effectively silenced any and all critics with name-calling and accusations of racial hatred and intolerance. This should be of GREAT concern because these tactics are the seeds of an imminent backlash that MAY LIKELY include very REAL racial hatred , the likes of which have yet to be seen.
Having personally been stopped on the streets of East Oakland I will share with you what I have learned in my 20 years of operating a motor vehicle...First, unless you are a criminal your chances of enduring more that moving violation are slim..Secondly, Attitude is Everything! I was stopped 3 weeks ago about 9:30pm and while I was irritated(needed to use the restroom), I stayed composed and pleasant. Upon handing my Driver License and registration to me I was informed that the stop was to inform me that my lights were not on. The point is.. that stop could have played out very differently had I started HUFFIN AND PUFFIN and TRIPPIN!!! Needless to say, if the vehicle smells like you just sparked up, or there are spent bullet casing on the back seat or a clip on the floorboard, pleasantries probably won't get you very far...
The fact that criminality in the ghettos of MLKs time was a staple also, only validates the outrageous and destrutive wholesale marketing of it today..The family is far weaker, values are more conditional,situational and compromisable,hopelessness has increased, and circumstances that were spawn out of DENIAL of opportunity, have morphed into a perverted sub-culture that has been created IN SPITE OF opportunity. That is the difference!!! Your very accomplishments are PROOF, and that of a man name Obama that character and class counts!!!It is, in fact the great equilizer because there is no MINIMUM income requirement or special certifications neccessary.
The de-blacking process is the primary PERP in the plight of the black middle an upper class you make mention of..Some are not able to fully enjoy the fruits of thier labor because they they been programmed by those with lessor ambition to believe that they can't leave the HOOD in good conscience unless they can take the "whole tribe with them". Of course to do so, somehow compromises their blackness and lends itself to the revocation of the all-important "GHETTO PASS." As a result of this, some blacks who live in affluently neighborhoods develope the unique talent of being able to "just sense that a person is racist by the way they say hello"..They live in fear of the "potential" for a lawn crossburning despite having grown up in a neighborhood where "actual" murders routinely occur.
Enjoy your life and success. Your choices are and should be an inspiration for many others!!
Joined: Nov 2008
Current Posts: 346
So, reality, are you stating that blacks have always been a violent, crime-producing race? I'm not sure where you're going here.
I also find unassuming's musings most interesting. Non-blacks have been effectively silenced regarding anything negative which is racially based - but only for blacks. This is what breeds hatred/intolerance because there is no effective dialogue.
An important thing to remember from history is that the prolonged economic nightmare of the Great Depression produced Hitler. He faulted the Jews for Germany's troubles, and through vitriol and mass hysteria, managed to slaughter millions of innocent Jews (along with blacks, gays, gypsies, the handicapped, etc). Hitler made Jews the economic scapegoats, by saying they took from society and gave nothing back. Sound familiar? It should - you can read that same vitriol in any number of posts on these boards when discussions of crime, sideshows, hip-hop, thugs, pimps, prostitution, student truancy, WiC, or unwed mothers come up. It's hidden in the anonymity of these boards, but the sentiment is real and palpable - and scary.
Right now in our country, the convenient scapegoats du jour are illegal aliens (who build/paint/repair our homes and buildings, pick our produce, staff our food-processing facilities, work in our factory farms, etc.) But I'd like to suggest that they are only scapegoated because it is still acceptable to do so. Their "real" cost to us in monetary terms is absolutely nothing compared to the economic value we receive in return. Republican and Democratic leaders know that the foundation of our everyday economy - indeed, way of life - relies on these illegals, which is why nothing is ever done.
It is estimated that the employment rate among all hispanics/latinos in our city is among the lowest for any racial group (probably about 5%; we have a large illegal population in Oakland so precise figures are impossible to ascertain). This is evidenced by the Fruitvale's 99% commercial occupancy rate - by far the highest of any district in our city. And, you don't see a lot of Latinos hanging around on street corners during working hours. (Remember, unemployment rates only include those who claim to be actively looking for work; the young latina pushing her baby in a stroller to Mi Pueblo doesn't count. Her husband works and their culture frowns on woman with small children working.)
Contrast this with Oakland's black population, with an "official" unemployment rate of 24% - it's likely much higher. There are jobs to be had, obviously, as illegal immigrants manage to find them. But, as has been oft-suggested by others, uneducated, low-skilled blacks don't want (or can't perform) these jobs. Public assistance is more profitable and no work is required.
As our economic problems progress, and government coffers are further stressed, it's not hard to guess which racial group might be scapegoated this time around. If the choice comes down to maintaining our police force vs. social welfare programs for people who don't work (as they have never acquired marketable skills or choose not to work), I think the choice that 70% of Oakland's population will make is obvious. OPD will be around long after city-funded public assistance vanishes.
That was the long version of saying that although mistrust of police may be high among your peers, they are considered an absolute necessity by most everyone else. And I would venture to guess that includes most black people.
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 50
Absolutely NOT!! What I am saying is the "marketing"(gansta rap/artist and the saggin pants) of criminal and violent behavior to society and the willingness to embrace this lifestyle with dignity and pride by the boisterous MINORITY of inner city youth in general (black youth in particular) is tragic. Likewise, the "silencing" of those that would dare criticize this trend wether they be black or non-black is equally tragic, because silence is a passive form of validation or stamp of approval if you will. If every black person who speaks on the ills of this perverted "gansta subculture" embraced by a boisterous MINORITY of minorities is a TOM and every non-black is a racist then how on earth can there ever be a dialogue which results in real change that MUST take place for the benefit of ALL.. The pendulum has swung so incredibly far to the left in the past few decades that the chickens have come home to roost in the the form of what was formerly called the "hard core unemployed" In the past, it was shameful to be in this category;however, in current times it risen to the level of being a dignified station in life. The dignity needs to be taken out it, out of crime, out of violence, out of the unwillingness to step up and assimilate into the broader culture as men and women of honor and integrity and respect(regardless of ones earnings) Dignity has to be put into the the willingness to work hard and smart, not in ones ability to be able to avoid earning a legitimate income and "GO Dumb"(as the youngsters put it). Black people are stronger than that.!! There is no black crime or violence gene;however, there has been a saturation and inundation of "victim mentality" upon blacks by individuals and entities who refuse to let black people stand up and take their place...Like puppet masters they move blacks via promises of somethin for nothin, in position to ultimately be used as a pawns in the game of "societies citizentry isn't capable of policing itself or incapable of responsible gun ownership for that matter". Of course, this little dance requires 2 party participition and SOME not MOST (despite those that speak as "REPRESENTATIVES" of the whole) are all to willing to dance. Mistrust of the police amonst people who look like me is high amonst those under the category of criminal/criminal sympathizers(the minority). The MAJORITY of us who, having considered the alternative, are no different than any other clear thinking individuals who work and pay taxes. Commonality in VALUES should be the unifying forces that dwarfs this racial preoccupation and bias and that keep certain individuals hobbled and in a fog of denial and blame. I personally point out BLACK issues for 2 seemingly opposing reasons.#1 As a black person living in a predominately black neighborhood these issue matter #2 To promote the reduction of racial preoccupation by my people, in the hopes that unification on the premise of shared values can prevail and thereby futher promote unification accross racial lines based shared values of life, liberty and the persuit of happiness..It is my hope that blacks see the folly of going down the yellow-bricked RACE road(the stats are not in our favor) It is time to draw a distintive line in the sand between those of US who choose TRUTH over race/ORDER over criminality and those that do not..!
Joined: Jan 2008
Current Posts: 751
Wow, the exchange that occurs above my post is possibly one of the most dignified and heartening ones I have witnessed on these forums. I truly wish that the likes of ResMan and unassuming were on the City Council. If so, they might just be able to lift Oakland out of the quagmire it is in. It would be nice if Reality returned and offered his response to what has been said. While I personally doubt there is much to be said that could refute unassuming's position, I would like to know what might be said.
Joined: Nov 2008
Current Posts: 346
Just to be clear, my first paragraph was writte to reality616, in response to his prior post about black crime in 1965 (as if that was somehow a mitigating factor).
Joined: Sep 2007
Current Posts: 411
I feel you reality616. And since this article mentions the infamous website Infowars.com, here's a perfect example to your statement pertaining to innocent victims of police brutality(link and video below), as well as the comments there which agree w/ your first post 100%. I've been following this horrific "cops-gone-wild incident for a few days and the dept did nothing to these 2 cops at first who denied any wrong doing(video shows different), than gave them desk jobs....until the good ppl of Passaic followed in Oakland's footsteps and made a lot of noise. Thank God, yesterday, Mayor Blanco fired both officer's w/ out pay in a packed rm of 200 ppl. This Officer Rio also assaulted a woman a yr ago & slammed her head into a cement wall after stopping her and pulling her out of her car. The female cop in the video, who is the wife of the ex mayor's son, was fired immediately after turning in a bogus report that she was hit numerous x's w/ the baton (insinuating) she attempted to stop her partner (video shows different). These 2 cops are the type of ppl who make policing hard for decent officers & employees who work in police depts, considering many aren't to bright and will judge an entire race or group of ppl by the actions of a few or the smaller portion. And no, not everyone 40 or over is in denial. I call it as I see it. Matter of fact, personally, I don't know anyone who is or ever was in my lifetime but that's probably b/c I don't have patience for those types nor give them the time of day, which was advice passed on to me when I was in college...and I pass to you. Ppl whose thought-process are limited or live in their heads will see no further than their experiences allow them.
http://www.infowars.com/new-jersey-cop-beats-man-for-standing-on-corner/
MY POSTINGS ARE'NT LAW, THEY ARE JUST MY OPINION
Joined: Aug 2008
Current Posts: 144
lol@ same kennel as Von Brunn..I can't wait to watch his trial on court TV (Priceless)!
Joined: Apr 2008
Current Posts: 56
Again you take the typical road of simple race baiting without looking at the complexities that make up the issue at hand. It’s easy to point to a skewed statistic and then backpedal your way to causation. My comments were in no way intended to suggest that black people have always been a violent and crime producing race and if that is what you gathered from my comment then it shows a lack of history on your part both in terms of world history as well as American history. One of the very reasons Africans were chosen as slaves was because they were generally peaceful and put up the least resistance (don’t misinterpret there was some violence in Africa at the time)
My comments in my second post were largely directed at unassuming and the generation he represents. While I appreciate the compliments unassuming I cannot agree with your position in any meaningful way. As I stated earlier my problem is with people in your generation and beyond acting as if this current generation is the result of some immaculate conception. Let’s dissect the comments of unassuming. First we have “SOCIETY FEELS the "STING" of BLACK crime and unruly behavior in a way that is unrivaled by the other 2 major groups”, I would submit that this is purely a subjective rationale, the idea that black youth are somehow more behaviorally corrupt is merely a play on perception largely encouraged by the media (here someone goes again blaming the media). I have been in several situations throughout the country where I have observed youth of all racial and ethnic backgrounds being disrespectful to adults and throwing around profanities including the N word as if they were the only words in the English language. So, I’m sorry but I cannot and will not entertain the idea that blacks are somehow worse either it’s all bad or it isn’t , you can’t have it both ways in essence cherry picking what to get upset about.
I would like to say that I’m glad that you were stopped and able to come out of it with a simple ticket , but in all reality and I truly mean no disrespect but I refuse to play the part of the Happy Negro. This brings me to my other point of contention with the previous generation and that is this concept that if you just play the part of the Happy Negro and keep your head in the sand, then everything will be Ok. I feel that I am a man of integrity if I’m going 10 to 15 miles above the speed limit write me a ticket and I will gladly sign it, but don’t get behind me because I’m an African American male in a BMW with other African American males and follow me for 3 miles and then think I’m not suppose to say anything about it or file a complaint and/or sue for harassment. My parents worked hard, I worked hard and if I want to drive my car down the streets of Oakland, Piedmont, or Alameda I should be able to do so any time day or night without being harassed. Many people tried to do the same with King essentially accusing him of being a trouble maker making the lives of everyday black folk harder. There is no evidence to even support the idea that keeping your head in the sand lends itself to a less stressful life. There is nothing wrong with standing up for your rights, and that’s true whether you are the college educated person or the thug/and or so called thug on the street (but more on that later).
Let’s address the issue of Barack Obama. I voted for Barack Obama because he didn’t support initially going to war as then senator Hillary Clinton did and secondly I voted for him because he was a progressive/liberal/ democrat , now don’t get me wrong I did hold my head a little higher knowing that an African American male had finally become president ( from slavery to the presidency in 226 years or 400 years depending on which starting point you chose). All that being said let’s get real, Barack Obama was the lesser of two evils, America had a real dilemma on its hands. America had to decide whether it was going to protect the presidential legacy by electing John McCain or whether it was going to elect someone who at least had an idea of about the problems America was facing, and even though McCain picked Sarah Palin (which is a whole different subject) Obama was only able to barely eke out a win, sure he had an electoral landslide but he barely won the popular vote when weighted against the population of the U.S. Now think about this, here you have a man in Obama who worked his way from being on welfare as a child to going to the best schools in the nation ( and this is and always will be an exception, let’s not get it twisted) with a rich tradition of churning out presidents, he did so well he became editor of the Law Review a very prestigious position especially in legal circles, he launched a herculean campaign which at times earned almost 3 times that of the competition. Given all that Obama barely beat out 72 year old C student who picked a very out of place Sarah Palin potentially putting her within a breath of the presidency
Joined: Nov 2008
Current Posts: 346
"Africans were chosen as slaves because they were generally peaceful" - you seriously believe that? Africans were chosen as slaves because a system that we today would call slavery existed for thousands of years in Africa itself! The Arabs and Indians ran the African slave trade long before the Europeans even thought about it. Then came the Spaniards, the Portuguese, British, French, Dutch - they then controlled the slave trade out of western Africa, while the Arabs and Indians continued in the East and North. Perhaps what is most significant, is that none of these non-African peoples raided villages and took people by force - they were offered slaves in return for gold and spices by strong African tribes who had been raiding weaker tribes for slaves for centuries. Yes - Africans sold African slaves in return for bling and seasoning. So, what is so often hung around the head of modern whites is actually the result of a long established culture of slavery in Africa. So established, in fact, that SLAVERY CONTINUES IN AFRICA TODAY. I firmly believe that if most African Americans could glimpse the condition of how the majority of the people who live in the countries where your ancestors lived, you'd be thankful that your great, great, great, great, great grandparents endured the inhumanity of slavery. White people were the last people to resort to slavery and the first to declare it immoral and illegal. But I suppose that is worth nothing when it doesn't suit a purpose.
I also believe that if Barack Obama had a longer campaign time, he would have won by a much greater margin. Although race was certainly an issue for some, the fact is that it took some guts for a lot of people to pull that lever for him. Truthfully, none of us really knew who we were voting for - but insubstantial legislative record and Jeremiah Wright pulled him down more than the color of his skin. And, nearly 7 MILLION more votes hardly qualifies as "barely beat"ing an opponent, especially when only about 13.3 million people voted in California (and California has 1/8 of the population of the entire country).
Joined: Sep 2007
Current Posts: 411
Bravo....excellent post, great debate! Opposing points were expressed very maturely
Joined: Apr 2008
Current Posts: 56
Let me bring it back it the original article. It is not my intention nor would I suggest that we get rid of the police (maybe trimmed down in these economic times, but that’s another debate) the police are a necessity in our society and in fact in any civilized society. My point was simply to point out that public sentiment is changing and people are becoming less tolerant of police misconduct. Just take a look at New York, while this very discussion was happening a jury convicted a police officer in the shooting of an unarmed black man in a DUI accident and a judge sentenced the cop to 1 -3 years in prison, and this happened in a state trial not a federal one. Even though the black man was driving under the influence and hit a parked car the jury (who believe it or not was not composed of cop hating minorities) convicted the cop for his ill proportioned use of force. This outcome would have been almost inconceivable in the 80’s, 90’s, or even at the beginning of this decade especially in New York given their history, attitudes are changing. Simply because you do not agree in lock step with the police and make it a point to express your opinion doesn’t mean that you support the criminal. I am totally willing and sometime do call out the youth for the mistakes that they make, but if I’m going to do it to them I should be willing if even more so to do it for the police.
In many respects I am very much in line with some of the actions and attitudes of future Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor. I have no problem with showing some compassion/ sympathy/ and or empathy towards those who are faced with extreme adversity. From a psychological stand point it always amazes me how we as moral society would condemn those who come from impoverished neighborhoods, broken homes, poor schools etc. yet will give a pass to those that take Oaths, come from privilege, have great educations, and make millions upon millions of dollars something is wrong with this. We would in essence scapegoat Tyrone (a stereotypical black name) or Javier (a stereotypical Hispanic name) for looking at someone’s gold necklace sideways but someone like Bernie Madeoff who cost thousands of people their entire life saving and yet he was allowed to be on house arrest in his penthouse while he figured a way to put assets in his wife’s name, and let’s not get started with the executives at AIG who were basically given a pat on the back and told not to do it again. Something is wrong with this picture in every way
Ever since the beginning of this case I have had a pretty fair opinion of this case and everything that I was thinking and have been saying was summarily validated by the Judge in this case. No matter how bad we (others) try to paint him “Oscar grant and his cohorts were not deserving of this treatment” and this is pretty much a quote out of the judges own mouth. “Trying to blame Oscar Grant or his friends amounts to a poor defense”, this is another quote from a well respected legal analyst. So I’ll will reiterate that this man in the original article was ill advised to make the comments he made, I believe his comments are reflective of growing unrest all be it on a much more subdued tone.
Joined: Nov 2008
Current Posts: 346
When the judge in this case stated that he thought Mehserle murdered Grant, he simultaneously GUARANTEED that the trial will be moved out of Alameda County. In that context, Judge Clay did Mehserle a favor - a HUGE favor.
Joined: May 2009
Current Posts: 424
reality616, you cite a "well respected legal analyst" as source of your quote (“Trying to blame Oscar Grant or his friends amounts to a poor defense”). Your doing so gives the impression its an unbiased professional scholar of law issues. But, just to set the record straight, the quote is from Tammerin Drummond. As I recently learned, she is an OP-ED columnist for Bay Area News Group (which includes THIS website). Your quote is title of a recent piece by her. Drummond gets paid to publicize her personal opinions on a wide range of controversial issues. They are not empirical facts.
BTW, imho, Drummonds quoted words are somewhat misleading, as well. Because, they errantly insinuate certain defense witness statements as the foundation of the defense position. But to the contrary, they're just a supplement to defense's position which blames the defendant for his own allegedly accidental conduct, in the context of the whole BART scenario.
This distinction may seem like semantic hair-splitting to some. But others will see it is as vast as the gulf between fact and fiction.
Joined: Apr 2008
Current Posts: 56
Actually his comments don’t guarantee anything, and that’s just a legal fact.
Joined: Nov 2008
Current Posts: 346
Judge Clay stated that he believed Mehserle committed murder. That is a verdict handed down without benefit of a trial before a jury of peers - a clear violation of the Bill of Rights. Yes, Mehserle has rights. As a result, the defense will argue that Mehserle cannot get a fair trial in Alameda County, and venue WILL be moved. Even the prosecution, now, will want a change of venue, because if Mehserle is found guilty in Alameda County courts, the defense will use Judge Clay's comments as evidence that the jury pool was tainted and move for a re-trial, which would be granted. And that's a fact.
Joined: Jan 2008
Current Posts: 751
In your post in response to unassuming you said this, " I would like to say that I’m glad that you were stopped and able to come out of it with a simple ticket , but in all reality and I truly mean no disrespect but I refuse to play the part of the Happy Negro" I am white. I have been pulled over by the police about 6 times in my life. I would hazard to guess, based on your allegation of profiling, that you have been pulled over more than that. Each time I was pulled over I was guilty of what I was accused of by the officer. Each time! This is important to understand because I accepted responsibility for each violation and acknowledged the officer had every right to pull me over. I have only been issued one ticket. I do not believe I got a pass because I was white, but because I offered an explanation for my violation without all the attitude and an angry look on my face. Thankfully I did not have passengers in my car at the time I was pulled over, but I would have told them to keep their mouths shut and their hands folded in their laps if I did. I suppose it makes you feel superior to unassuming whom you are calling an Uncle Tom, because you don't show common courtesy to the officer who takes a great risk by pulling over any car in the first place. I guess you have this all figured out and you would rather pay higher insurance premiums to keep your false pride intact.
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 50
Here's the thing Jif...Our dear friend REALITY is obviously very intelligent...He has made good choices in life and has lifted himself to a place of relative peace and tranquility and financial security. REALITY has debunked the myth of the hobbled black man that can't get a fair shake..He has proven that with drive, motivation, a strong work ethic, education and perserverance you can achieve anything you want, live wherever you can afford to live, dine in any restarant that your budget allows......even if you happen to be black.!!! Here's where his delima begins....Like me, he was probably taught things like, "no matter what you do you always gone be a N to white folks" or "white folks aint gone let no N do that" or in the words of Kanye West" even though you in a Benz, you still a N in a coupe"...Like me, he has probably been exposed to all the vile snippets from the 60s with the firehoses and dogs and poor white trash thugs parading down the street flying the confederate flags and yelling racial slurs out the window of pick up trucks..He likely saw photos of black bodies hanging from trees "strange fruit"while white faces smiled and smurked and celebrated...Like me he probably hated White people for many years because of that................................Fast Foward to now.........>>>>>>Now a days, you would be hard press to find a white person insane enough to yell N at a group of blacks unless they themselves are armed, or have superior numbers, police protection or an extremely fast vehicle. Now a days, the only folks murdering blacks in mass are blacks. Now a days, the smiles and smirks are on the faces of black trash thugs that celebrate things like OJs innocent verdit for murder, or the killing of OPD officers while IGNORING the wholesale MARKETING of black lynching by gangsta rappers..
Reality has obligated himself to remain the ANGRY NEGRO despite his accomplishments, because while his body resides in 2009 ,his heart resides in the civil rights era and his mind won't accept the truth that much his thoughts of racism play out far more in his mind than in reality..!! I have been down that road and its certainly not the path of least resistance. He won't allow himself to fully enjoy the fruits of his labor because, to do so would mean that everything he has been taught was in fact wrong...So what he does to pacify his splintered soul, is to make success as a black man be on PAR with being a failure...He won't allow himself to express truthfully how greatful he is to have been birthed in this country versus mother AFRICA..He won't allow himself to express how greatful he is to not have to rub shoulder everyday with DA Homies in the HOODsof Deep Eastside O. Of course, by doing this he becomes further splintered, so now as he drives down the street in his beautiful sedan and he hopes and wishes for something,ANYTHING to validate his existence as a BLACK MAN...A traffic stop perhaps or an officer who follows him for more than 2 blocks???
If he would stop being a BLACK MAN and start being a MAN....who just so happens to be black, his life would become far less conflicted...Why? because the absence of black fathers and lack of positive black role models have made defining black manhood, masculinity and machismo very challeging...A perfect example of this is the tendancy of black males to argue and debate and complain. By mainstream standards and certainly by the standards of male babyboomers, this would be a tendancy relegated to girls and women and thus, the antithesis of masculine. Another example would be the tendancy of black males to place more importants on the way words are used, versus the validity or BOND of words.
REALITY is still young though, but he will get it!!! In the meantime, I suppose I will just be a simple minded working class Uncle Tom happy Negro, who loves being being pulled over by the police I suppose.
Joined: Sep 2007
Current Posts: 411
Unbelievable. Sweetie, i hate to be the one to bust your bubble..but jif is truly not defending your honor. To give you a little clarity here, he's USING you as an excuse to jump in and nit pick at reality, point blank. You know, like how racist cops back in the days use to find the weakest link out the group than use them to pit blacks against blacks, Latinos against Latinos. I'm not saying you're a weak link, just giving u an example. With every fiber of his eternal being, he HATES blacks & young ppl (or youths)...and most regulars & the moderator of this forum is aware of that. Worst yet, blacks who post w/ intelligence. Oops my bad...i nearly forgot, he decided to be a "she" this year (after months of portraying to be a vile-mouth male specie, sucking up to men & cursing at females like a truck driver). She/ he is settled down momentarily due to the moderator bumping "his/her" absurd anti-black postings again, and this is a reg issue on this forum. To be honest jif and chris m (aka traveler aka firefox) despise one another so they actually aren't on the same team as one would think on this thread. Traveler had to change her handle b/c they were rat packing her as jif is now attempting w/ reality. Traveler has ALWAYS had a knack for cutting & pasting other ppl's postings assuming if she finds them to be other ppl's quotes it makes her appear intelligent. You know, like she's doing BIG THINGS in life, lol... (whisper) It gives a boost to her extremely low self-morale, sssh. It's petty but most of us have grown accustom to it. Me, I despise bullies & enjoy reading intelligent debating which I thought the one between you and reality was quite eloquent & mature...until you bit into jif's c(rap) allowing him to put something in your head about reality's posting that isn't even there. B/c a person is speaking on himself and u feel you're the total opposite of that individual, it doesn't mean their criticizing you. Realty is not petty-minded, believe that. Matter of fact, I just sent reality a email commending u both for the way this debate was handled maturely, which is rare, w/ out someone jumping in attempting to turn it into something ugly. I'm including this so he'll know I had not seen this post yet & now I'm just trying to keep you both on track
Matter of fact, some of this stuff u said regarding whites would normally blow jif threw the roof & have him/her spitting fire back...omg
My postings are not law, just my opinions
Joined: Aug 2008
Current Posts: 264
Bluepeas, Why do you keep sniping at me? I raised one point about a previous post of yours that implied the majority of black Christians voted for Prop 8, a position later debunked by the Chronicle who started this.
Anytime I politely challenge any one of your positions, it's seems to produce a flood of personal attacks, venomous slander and sniping, and other pettiness and childish behaviors.
At the time, you civillly answered my post. Then out of the "blue", no pun intended you started again one of your vicious gossiping campaigns. It seems that you, above all, have the hardest time with anyone disagreeing with your positions on this forum. And instead of responding to the points raised, you respond like several others, with personal and petty vicious and mean personal comments that are off topic. Including when I'm not even commenting on the points you raise, commenting on you, or anything else.
I can only conclude several unpleasant things about your personality.
And please don't start making your usual incorrect assumptions and speculations about people's realtionships and their twists and turns. Try to stick to the points raised without going around playing street psycholoanst about people's personalities and reasons for saying what they post and why. You are always way off mark and seem more interested in trashing anyone who has disagreed with your positions then in understanding why. It appears you can brook no dissent whatsoever.
I hate to say it, but Tbizz stated it well when she cautioned you from putting all your personal information out there for others to judge. I will only comment that when you run your mouth about me and others and the pettiness and backbiting starts coming out, you only diminish yourself.
Regarding Jif, I have crossed swords with him at times and he has crossed swords with me. Any mature adult recognizes that people have differences and cross swords. It's inevitable for people who have strong opinions that clash. I do not despise either Jiff nor Eggbert nor you. I recognize the source of the antagonism and deal with it and try not to personalize it.
As for Jif's playing divide and conquer, it seems that you play the role of "ghetto black", running to chastise any black person who might have disagreements with another black person on this site and might even, (shame on them), dare to agree with a white person on a particular subject and matter over a black person? Why how irrational! How unprincipled! What a betrayal to the black race to disagree with a black person!
And Unassuming, thank you for articulating our society's dual tragedies of ghettoization and failed welfare policies which each and every one of us are responsible for changing.
There, I didn't even put a link to someone's knowledge and articulation of a subject that I thought was superior to mine. What horrendous crimes I have committed online here. Moderator, give me 20 lashes of the keyboard!
Joined: Sep 2007
Current Posts: 411
yeah yeah whatever fox...your post is to long for me to read right now, im sleepy & burnt out from reading & about to leave..but i never seen none of your replies to my postings...i don't think...but i dont have a problem w/ u & only read 1 or 2 of your postings. Soon as my paper subscription was over & I came back I immediately seen ppl saying u were Traveler so I skipped over firefox comments... I jus threw your name in there since everyone is adamant that you're "traveler" and her personality is spotted right thru the lies she tells while portraying to b someone else, but I've read Chris Marshall/ Chris M and I know for a fact that's TRAVELERS. She has a distinctive personality no one can miss & using other handles b/c she knows ppl r just sick & tired of her nit picking, like a few others in here...even more obvious is these handles w/ the same tell-tale personalities r in here most part of EVERYDAY & don't miss ONE POST...only a few members do that....just like how u instantly seen my post, so did Chris, hmmmmm. Catch my drift, yeah u got it
And I don't really care what ppl in here do or say...it's not that serious. Do what u do. My life does not revolve around a forum, lol
HEY WAIT A MINUTE! I JUST THOUGHT ABOUT SOMETHING...YOU R ST8 BUSTED! I'VE NEVER HAD A DISAGREEMENT W/ U UNDER FIREFOX...OMG. YOU HAVE SO MANY HANDLES YOU'RE CONFUSING THIS ONE W/ ANOTHER ONE, ASSUMING THIS IS THE ONE YOU WERE TALKING MORE OF YOUR SMACK ON. PPL R GOING TO HAVE TO PAY TO GET ON HERE & MOST NEWSITES SOON ANYWAY. HOPEFULLY IT'll GET RID OF THE GROUPIES. IM OUT OF HERE..
Joined: May 2009
Current Posts: 424
Firefox, I savored reading your stream of insights here. And I agree with every point you made. I applaud your eloquence & tactfulness, as well.
Joined: Jan 2008
Current Posts: 751
bluepeas, please keep your on da block meddling out of these forums. You have become so confused by your own soap opera fantasies you can not recall who is who. How dare you suggest that I was using unassuming as a weak link to get into the fold. unassuming is anything but the weak link on these forums. He is also a grown man who does not need anyone to defend his honor, he does a fine job of it all by himself. (Side note: Why would you debase unassuming and suggest that he needs a white person to defend his honor? Do you think so little of him?) Anyway, if I were going to choose a person of color to fit the role of weak like I would have chosen you or old churchgal! If I were going to do the same with a white guy I would have chosen Jeff Fredenburg! You see, it is not the color of the skin that I take issue with, but the words that are written by any given poster. You go ahead and feel entitled to paint me as a racist because I don't agree with you and your ghetto fabulous logic. I am relatively certain that the other posters on these forums are discerning enough to judge me based on a more realistic basis.
BTW let me respond to this: "Matter of fact, some of this stuff u said regarding whites would normally blow jif threw the roof & have him/her spitting fire back...omg" If you are referring to the well documented, factual description of the fight against racism and oppression from the 1960s that unassuming described, I am not spitting fire. I read and saw those same film clips in school. This is a matter of our history, no matter how painful it is to watch, and is not something that I would debate or deny. You ought to try to do more of the same and stop rewriting history to make yourself feel good about the past.
Joined: Aug 2008
Current Posts: 144
Jif because bluepeas is comparing you to Traveler, you decide you wanna compare me to bluepeas?, well how bout this, lets compare you and yo momma to a forked tongued serpant!..Im telling you your way off base, keep my screenanme out of your pie hole!, you don't know me!
Joined: Nov 2008
Current Posts: 346
So much for a mature discussion. So much for a LUCID discussion...
Joined: Apr 2008
Current Posts: 56
First of all I don’t judge people by their social status and I’m currently in programs that mentor to at risk youth, so I really don’t get the comment about not having to rub shoulders with the homies’ in the East. I don’t have to go out and look for trouble in order to be validated and the incident I did have with a police officer I took to court and won a judgment against him and the department, thank you very much.
I love this country and I’m glad that I was born here, but I will not sit back and act as if everything is perfect. I think part of having a fulfilling life is making something better than the way you found it. If a black person makes a mistake, as I have already stated but seems to be glossed over, I have no problem with calling them out for it, and if a police officer or anyone else makes a mistake I have no problem calling them out on it.The fact that anyone would have a problem with this position of justice, exposes their own biases and strict adherence to some misguided ideology.
I actually do like that song sung/rapped by Kanye West when he states “Even if you’re in a Benz, you’re still a N…. …….” This is what you call a truism, social status and affluence can mask the effects of racism for lack of a better word, but they cannot shield you from them entirely. Everybody from Oprah to the Obama’s have commented on this fact all having experience forms of discrimination to this day. Even outspoken Bill Cosby who many said (except me) was airing dirty laundry. When Cosby spoke many said he was saying what needed to be said, and many conservatives attempted to trot him out and say “ See black people listen to what your problems are”, but knowing Cosby as I do I knew it was only a matter of time before he clarified his statements, he went on to say that in no way were his comments meant to imply that institutional racism doesn’t exist or that it doesn’t contribute to a lot of the problems people face, but that there is also a component of person responsibility as well. Most of the comments that I post are in alignment with this notion. I know that personal responsibility is a component but it is my belief through my observations and undergraduate studies that institutional racism and the cycles that it creates contribute to a much larger degree. Personal responsibility can help to create the exception but it cannot and will not create the rule.
I’m sorry but the part about black masculinity totally went past me, maybe it’s late but I really don’t see how that comes into play at all or how it makes a difference whether you are a man or a woman. Furthermore I like the fact that I am a Black Man and if I had to do it again I would come back as a black man. Contrary to the popular belief the idea of a color blind society is unattainable and unrealistic. People should be proud to be who they are whether they are Asian, White, Black, Latin e.tc we are all different and we should celebrate our differences. The problem in our society is that we are all different and know it and instead of celebrating and appreciating our differences every group tries to make false claims of superiority over one another.
Joined: Jan 2008
Current Posts: 751
Come on reality, Mr. Cosby did not recant he only clarified. So what he said stands, and most right thinking people agree with what he said. Most right thinking people also agree that there was, and to a much lesser degree is, racism. Please stop hanging your hat on it, because as unassuming pointed out you are proof that with the will to succeed anyone can get an education. I wish you the best of luck working with the at-risk youth of East Oakland. Perhaps it is best that they hear if from you that they ought to conjugate their verbs, leave the N word out of all of their sentences, limit their cursing to private times with friends and behave like civilized human beings we will make some progress in Oakland.
Joined: Nov 2008
Current Posts: 346
I would venture to say that I experience racism by at least 70% of black people that I run into at the local Safeway. To be despised because of the color of skin is not solely the province of black people. Any non-black can attest to this - especially in Oakland.
Joined: Apr 2008
Current Posts: 56
I clearly stated that he clarified his statement, I never said he recanted so why attack my comments?
Joined: Mar 2008
Current Posts: 9
Cmon how stupid can you be to post threats like that for everyone to read. You get broke off serious time now for making terrorist threats.
Joined: Jan 2008
Current Posts: 751
I'm curious erndogg, what threats/post are you talking about?