Posted on Tuesday, 5/19/2009 - 11:18 a.m. PDT — by fernan gabriel
Shame on you Tribune, a witness testified that police were abusing their powers, but you chose instead to focus on what an unarmed man who was shot in the back while handcuffed and in police custody was doing while riding public transportation on New Year's Eve. Even if Oscar Grant was on crack and killed someone on that train (which he was not and did not), the fact that he was unarmed, handcuffed, lying face down on the ground and in police custody when he was shot in the back makes Johannes Mehserle a murderer. Attacking Oscar Grant's reputation through the media won't change that FACT. Oscar Grant is not on trial for murder here, and never will be.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Current Posts: 35
fernan, I think we have had enough of the media portraying one side of the story - all we have heard until now is how a homicidal cop bent on racial injustice grabbed Mr. Grant (who was just standing there minding his own business) and shot him purposefully in the back. Now let the testimony and facts come forward. A horrible incident for all involved. Shame on the Tribune? Shame on you for not wanting to hear the other side of the story. The angle is now, and will remain, how the facts paint a different picture. And fernan gabriel, I'd like to add that the lack of capital letters in your name is disturbing.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 70
"...an unarmed man who was shot in the back while handcuffed and in police custody..." Was someone else shot in the back on that platform that hasn't been reported?
If you're referring to Oscar Grant, he was not handcuffed, nor could the police know that he was unarmed since he had not been searched at that point. The BART police were still struggling to handcuff Mr. Grant when Officer Mehserle fired the fatal shot.
Joined: Sep 2007
Current Posts: 411
When the story first broke it was only obvious why so many ppl had their video cams rolling, the same reason Oscar was telling those bart cops not to kill him. Ppl aren't stupid. These folks on the trains all had a buzz from celebrating New Years "yet" they were ALL able to sense something evil was about to take place. When u have one or two ppl saying the same thing there's room to question it, but when EVERYBODY is feeling the same vibe or the majority is all saying the same dahm thing...hey, it's all said and done. End of story. I still say they should have did a drug and alcohol test on those officers and it should be standard procedures in situations like these
Joined: Jan 2008
Current Posts: 751
Right, the entire train was having a premonition! If only they had warned Grant and Mehserle of the tragedy to come this whole thing could have been averted. Damned alcohol! Anyway, only the innocent engage in scuffles or other such down-played terms on the nights of their deaths.
Joined: Sep 2007
Current Posts: 411
I WASNT TALKING ABOUT A PREMONITION, ESP OR WHATEVER RAN THROUGH YOUR FEEBLE MIND. YOU'RE ALWAYS GOING ALL OFF INTO LEFT FIELD W/ EVERYBODY'S POSTINGS. NEARLY EVERY PASSENGER ON ALL 3 TRAINS OBSERVED THOSE PARTICULAR BART OFFICERS ENTERED THE SCENE W/ SUCH UN NECCESSARY FORCE & VICIOUS ATTITUDE, UNLOADING ALL THAT HOSTILITY ON ONE TRAIN, SHOVING & DRAGGING 4,5 MINORITY YOUNGSTERS OFF BY FORCE! COMBINE "ALL" THE ABOVE & THE FACT THEY WERE ALL WHITE OFFICERS W/ CONFRONTATION ISSUES BEHAVING LIKE ANYTHING "BUT" DECENT LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS THEMSELVES, NATURALLY EVERYBODY ON ALL 3 DIFFERENT TRAINS IS GOING TO SENSE SOMETHING'S ABOUT TO JUMP OFF. ALL CATCHING THE SAME BAD VIBES THOSE ROGUE MEN PUT OUT, IS WHAT CAUSED SO MANY VARIOUS RIDERS TO WHIP OUT THEIR CELLS & START TAPING...COMMON SENSE
Joined: Mar 2008
Current Posts: 60
I think its indicative of a society increasingly under surveilance. And rightfully, so. You never know who's watching or recording, so its best to not shoot people in the back EVEN if your not sure or havent searched them.
Joined: Jan 2008
Current Posts: 751
So all these good citizens frightened of the officers, let me get this right because it is priceless, with confrontation issues sensed evil was afoot. Really? It was fine when 5 or 6 grown, drunken, obscene men were brawling on the BART train, but the police took it to another level. Note to self, do not ride BART on any night when savage tu-rds may need a ride home following a night of drinking so I am not subjected to their disgusting, inhuman behavior. The only reason people on the train did not film Grant and company acting like the gross thugs they were is because they feared one of them would have grabbed their cell phones and broken it for capturing their criminal behavior.
Joined: Jan 2009
Current Posts: 85
They would have taken the phone and posted the video on Youtube, forget breaking it! They would want to be internet celebs.
Joined: May 2009
Current Posts: 424
It's uncanny! I also get an eerie feeling that something bad will happen, whenever paroled felons choose to do behaviors that violate the formal conditions of their parole.
Joined: Nov 2008
Current Posts: 601
""yet" they were ALL able to sense something evil was about to take place."
Yeah, I'm gonna have to wave the bulls**t flag on that one.
Go to you tube and search "cop" and there's quite a bit more filming of cops that don't become scandals than there are of cops getting out of control.
QUITE A BIT.
May take a few years for you to see them all and realize my point but eventually you'll figure it out....lol
Joined: Sep 2007
Current Posts: 411
SJ Marine, lets say for example your wife comes home from work, or whatever, grocery run, etc...and soon as she sees you, she becomes stone-faced, tosses things around and slams doors. You say something to her & she looks in your face and gives u the evil eye, than tells u not to say s(hyt) to her, and walks off mumbling under her breathe. This is out of character for most wives, especially yours, even when she's in a real bad mood or you're in BIG t-r-o-u-b-l-e. Those vibes right there would let you and your kids know, something isn't right w/ mommy on this day, at this minute, right?. If u pass someone on the street and acting the same way, while everyone else is just proceeding about their business. You'd know something wasn't right w/ that individual too, right. What I'm saying is when ALL these ppl seen these particular bart officers coming in w/ their face all twisted up, slamming ppl around, using racist epithets and telling folks to get their mother f----- a(zzes) out the way (like one of those swat cops told a senior while creeping after Mixon in the building), they knew that behavior was out of the norm for sane OPD. Seeing bart cops come up on a situation is some new s(hyt) for most ppl but I've observed them quite a few x's down there at the fruitvale center. They'll call for back up on a disabled, old homeless, bag lady, or an unconscious drunk. I kid you not. In most urban cities ppl have learned when cops act like that (the above) or over-paranoid, there's going to be some problems & things are going to escalate. They were smart to start filming.
Joined: May 2009
Current Posts: 424
Your analogy leaves out the facts of the passenger with gun incident at the West Oakland BART station (which Mehserle and other cops had attended to), which happened right before the Fruitvale BART shooting. There's NO videos of that. Gee I wonder why?
It also leaves out the many passenger phone calls seeking cops help at the Fruitvale Station, in specific response to Oscar Grant and others endangering innocent passengers with their fights on the BART train in motion.There's NO videos of that. Gee I wonder why?
It also leaves out that the fighters were ordered off the train, but, Grant definiantly chose to return back into a train after being ordered out (which btw his unharmed pals didn't join). Cops had to go in and get him out again. There's NO videos of that. Gee I wonder why?
It also leaves out the loud raucous taunting crowd of bystander passengers, many of whom were high or drunk from celebrating. There were throwing items not just taunts at the cops. There's multiple witness reports of that. There's NO videos of that. Gee I wonder why?
Plus some started physically infringing into the scene where cops had the detained men. That in itself is blatantly confrontational and inflamatory and dangerous! Fortunately that is inadvertently documented in some degree by the videos we have seen.
BTW, as I've said before, there are indeed more videos that the public has rarely seen, which disprove conclusions drawn from the distant grainy ones in mass circulation. They're being reserved for the courts of law.... but the public may see them after the trial ends. They're going to have a whole lot of people eating their words.
BTW I've lived in Oakland flatlands my whole life. And I strongly disagree with your assessment of what "most ppl" (of the law-abiding variety) expect or have received from OPD or BART cops. Naturally, those who don't abide laws take a different tone about cops. But, fwiw, I don't give a sh(y)te about their reasons/excuses. I just try to avoid becoming their latest crime victim.
Joined: Aug 2008
Current Posts: 144
Jesus was crucified, such as the case for a thousand innocents violently murdered in cold blood by your boys in blue . Erich, don't try and rationalize with a bunch of ingrates who are hellbent on spewing their hate. These "haters" arent interested in truth or justice for victims of violent crime, just hate and malice for their fellow man. God knows whats best for the like and surely they and their ill spawn shall burn in the flames of hell!
Joined: Mar 2008
Current Posts: 60
" Anyway, only the innocent engage in scuffles or other such down-played terms on the nights of their deaths."
Yeah, um NOBODY deserves to get SHOT in the back while lying face down, REGARDLESS of engaging in scuffles or other such DOWN PLAYED terms, MKAAYYYYY?
Nobody.
Joined: May 2009
Current Posts: 424
No Oscar Grant was NOT handcuffed at the time of the shooting. The fact is, Grant was resisting letting Mesherle handcuff him. Grant was face down with his arms pinned together under his own chest & belly, held there by his own body weight. And by his wriggling around to make it harder for Mesherle to get a grab on them. This is proven in a specific video taken from the far right side of the platform, which KRON aired -- but which has not been as widely circulated as the many other blurry or distant videos shot from the left side. Don't worry ... this fact will come out more clearly in the trial.
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 49
Scuffle or not, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to shoot an unarmed person lying face down. Use the baton and beat him, give him an old fashioned Rodney King, but you DO NOT KILL THE MAN.....If I shot and killed Richard Ramirez while he was no threat to me, it's murder. Mehserle committed murder that day, plain and simple. Do I think he is a rotten person, scum of the earth? No. I think he was inexperienced, scared and, improperly trained which led to him killing a man in cold blood and for that he must be punished. In the State of California, I cannot kill someone that has broken into my house at 3 in the morning and is standing in my 3 year old daughter's doorway to her room, unless he is threatening her life. For that I will go on trial for murder.
Joined: Mar 2008
Current Posts: 58
You can't be serious! Grant was an eagle scout on his way to help little old ladies across the street, before he went to choir pratice1
Joined: Aug 2009
Current Posts: 7
Oscar Grant deserved to live last New Year's Day. Anybody who disagrees with that statement must rethink his or her status as a humane person. Whether Grant was rowdy, had a criminal history or whatever, did not make his murder any less horrendous. The fact that he was shot lying facedown on the floor with his hands behind him and two cops on top of him makes you wonder what kind of training these people had. The BART police need to be dismantled and rebuilt with a civillian review board and some kind of accountability for their behavior. The cop who killed Mr. Grant needs to be put in jail for a very long time for his actions. If the masses do not get justice, the people might try to seize it in the streets.
Joined: Nov 2008
Current Posts: 601
"Anybody who disagrees with that statement must rethink his or her status as a humane person."
Excellent point.
Now concede that Oscar Grant's choices in life placed him in that position.
Yes, the cop killed him and needs to do serious time. But Grant is not free of responsibility, he wasn't "innocent" otherwise he wouldn't have been on his face in the first place.
Joined: Jun 2008
Current Posts: 54
By age 22, Grant had 12 prior arrests and served 2 prison terms. (= Facts reported by earlier editions of SF Examiner and SF Chronicle and others.) That public fighting he did was a violation of his parole he was on (for the 16-month prison term he'd been released from, 3 months earlier). No, not reasons to get shot! Just, relevant background to explain speculation that Grant resisted getting arrested that night, because arrest could've landed him back in prison again. And he knew it.
Instead, ironically, Mehserle (former enforcer of law & order) wound up committing a crime that will land him prison time. If I was in Mehserle's shoes, all things considered, by now I'd be wishing I could trade places with Grant.
Joined: Jun 2008
Current Posts: 54
Mehserle criminally overreacted in frustration that Grant was refusing to let cops get a grip on his arms, in order to pull them behind his back to become handcuffed. But at least your disinformation isn't that other false myth about Grant already being handcuffed when shot.